My unbelief was me coming to my senses, sparked by a particular set of circumstances. What rules? When did I say I subscribed to any set of rules?
I'm afraid it is Fan. It really isnt, but whta bit are you struggling with? I will try and help Why should I care what Christians are meant to do? Just showing you the error of your statement re bloke who doesnt like to be drawn. Which ancestors? And why did they do it? Our ancestors from way back when, and they did as it was natural to eat twice a day getting up at dawn and eating at night at sunset. The whole 3 meals a day etc is consumerism lead Like what? Like embroyology, like the formation of the stars, even the universe, Halocline, rainfall etc to name a few Both bollocks. in what way? I believed that if I was an all round good bloke and believed in god that would be enough. That was my interpretation of religion. Why should my interpretation be any less valid than that of the religious authorities centuries ago? Who sets these rules in the first place and why are they only ones that can be adhered to? You were obviously wrong. This is typical of do what I want and blame god when things go bad. As i said you cannot be vegetarian and eat beef. That was your choice and you are welcome to believe and carry out your life any way you like. However by then saying I believed in god and that was enough shows your ignorance. God set the guidelines you chose to make your own, your choice is valid BUT is not belief in god. So basically you need to stop blaming him. Not emotional. You were asking why I stopped believing, I explained why. Re your child, I don't know if you had the birds and bees chat, but it's not my place to educate you on that. That is what I said, your non belief was based on something happening in your life Birds and bees was the conception, not what happened after. For me it was gods will You obviously believe it was your fault, based on natural selection etc? My unbelief was me coming to my senses, sparked by a particular set of circumstances. What rules? When did I say I subscribed to any set of rules? Your unbelief was from a sense of injustice, unless you were lying before in a couple of past conversations. The rules laid down by god for the believers. You have said you were a 'believer' and have admitted above what you thought was enough, which wasnt following the rules laid down but inventing your own. Which takes us full circle to what you were saying/asking: If God is both good and all-powerful, why does he let bad things happen to good people? To which my response was: who says they were 'good'? Most people do as they please, do all the things their god (and I say this to include all religions) tells them are prohibited, yet when things go wrong they blame the very same god I rest my case
Yes, most people. But you never explained why pious people aren't immune to bad things happening. Because you know they're not. They never have been, never will be. Has nobody at your mosque ever had cancer for example?
I can't even remember now. so arguing for the hell of it? But I don't follow Jesus, you do follow Muhammad. makes no odds, you made a sweeping statment and I corrected you Do you have any proof of this? Not in the way of names addresses etc, I thought it was obvious and well known actually, obviously not. Hunter gatherers etc went days without food at times. If you go to some countries they still have meal times different to 'us'. I stayed with a family in Kashmir who ate what we would call a dinner at breakfast and same again in the evening and nothing in between So why aren't all scientists Muslim then? In the case of embroyology Moore became one, there are other examples too. Others agree with the quran and accept Muhammad didnt write it but dont convert, don know why Sorry? In what way are they bollocks? God hasn't given me any guidelines though Fan. He has depending on which religion you thought you believed in, you chose to ignore and do what you wanted And I don't blame god, nor am I angry with him. Where have I said this? It comes across in all your posts on the topic What I said is that my circumstances made me realise that god DOESN'T EXIST. If he did exist, why would he punish my son for my lack of belief by placing him in a mental prison for life? Thats just emotion speaking, how do you know that your son is in a mental prison, he may be 100 times happier than you. Your judgement is based on what you percieve life to be Sure, if he wants to punish me for my heresy then do something that will only affect me. But why punish an innocent who will never be able to comprehend his punishment, unless a miracle cure is created. This is not like your 'he took my son to heaven so the innocent child was being protected'. There is no explanation in your religion - or any religion for that matter - for my son. The only explanation is evolution gone too far, which suggests god's 'perfect plan' isn't working. There is in my religion pal, he is either testing you or punishing you. Either way there is a 'good' in it. Evolution is supposed to make things better Now you're saying non-belief, before you were saying I was angry with god, hence belief. Which is it Fan? Your anger has lead to non belief, by what happened in your life. Its quite clear Over evolution is the latest thinking Fan. How would that be my fault? yeah when things dont fit invent something. How come you dont believe/blame evolution? as for the your fault bit, evolution and its processes must mean that there is a problem in the lineage somewhere I always thought it was survival ofthe fittest etc Which rules? Try and keep up, the rules laid down by God in various scriptures etc Yes, most people. But you never explained why pious people aren't immune to bad things happening. Because you know they're not. They never have been, never will be. Has nobody at your mosque ever had cancer for example? I dont have 'a mosque' (ignorance again), however the ones i have used I am sure have, as I have said people die, even Muhammad had an illness before he died which made him bed ridden However its a state of mind, the best example maybe the muslim warriors If they won a battle they 'won'. If they got killed they still 'won'. Because they believed that they were fighting for a true cause in the way of god, the prize was paradise. Hence the phrase 'how can you defeat an army that loves death more than you love wine and women' Another example (and I hope this isnt misconstrued ) would be your situation (or mine to a degree) Lets assume Islam is correct and there is heaven and hell etc, You are atheist so will be heading to hell Your little one is innocent and will always be innocent so is guaranteed heaven despite what you do or that he doesnt fast/pray etc so maybe God loves him a lot basically what you see as pain and suffering may not be the same for all
No, that's your trick. I am not the one forgetting wat I was talking about If you say so. I do Hunter gatherers went days without food because there was none to eat. Not out of choice you plonker. AND only ate twice a day So not many then. Is this a bit like Nostradamus, where things get twisted to suit? As I said its many more, and it was clear cut for all of them. In the Moore case its very specific Muhammad and god = Bull****. Sorry. Muhammad existed and left the quran. Of that there is no doubt. so sorry only bollox is coming from you How do you know what I ignored? because you told me Maybe judging emotion isn't your strong point then. You told me yourself FFS do you remember anything you have said I assure you Fan, he isn't happier than me. There are thousands of examples for this, and I can't believe your arrogance here with you knowing next to nothing about the situation. I'll give you 2 examples. Firstly, if he's so happy, why does he have callouses on both wrists? Calloses caused by him biting himself several times a day, which he does when he is in extreme distress or frustration. Secondly, why does he spend about half an hour every few days sobbing uncontrollably and holding his ears to block the world out? You're such an arrogant ****** Fan to try and suggest I don't know my son and what he goes through. If you want to believe that you go right ahead. As I said he is heaven bound. Allah does not give ANY soul more than what he can cope with My lad breaks bones/born with broken bones, his pain threshold is far greater than any childs. The femur is one of the worst bones to break in terms of pain, he shrugs it off and has broken it twice, any medical book or first aid course will tell you thats not 'normal'. But he isnt 'normal' so why apply 'normal' rules to him You have no idea what you're talking about Fan. Some scientists believe that autism is a result of the human brain developing, or evolving too far. Yeah they also believed homosexuality was genetic, they also believed the best thing for my lad was abortion. You want to believe that and kid yourself its up to you But before you were saying I'm still angry with god NOW. Like I said, make your mind up. Is english a second language? Your anger lead you to disbelief What have I invented? When did I say I don't believe evolution? I was talking about scientists not you However you dont believe in god because of what happened to you, yet now believe that it was evolution that caused it. so why maintain a belief in evolution? why not blame that and become a disbeliever? Like I said Fan, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Its quite clear really, If you believe in the evolutionary process then clearly there is an issue in the lineage that has lead to 'abnormality'. So the fault lies with you possibly or another member of the family Although there are increasingly links with drugs both medicinal and recreational, for example MMR in some cases, potentially the pill. With my lad for example there was a medication that was given to my Mrs but we didnt know she was pregnant for a tooth abcess, The medicine used has been proven to cause issues with bone development when it was tested on animals but deemed safe for humans. Did you? Yes, Dont you? Why should I care about those? I don't believe in god. Youre forgetting your own argument again, you will be claiming I dont answer again, truth is either you are being purposefully thick or..... How ignorant of me to assume a strict Muslim goes to a mosque You didnt say that though did you, you asked me about my mosque I didn't say die/illness. I said cancer, which causes mental and physical suffering. Something the pious apparently don't experience according to you. One of my muslim mates dads died of lung cancer, he never even told them, only his wife knew. He took her on holidays and was, according to her, under no distress Then they were very wrong. They had it spot on, and were true believers Heaven wouldn't be heavenly for him though. Yes it will as he wont have any disability/'abnormality' its written so it shall be. Some obvious things are the same for all. No such thing as 'obvious'. what you see as obvious may not be for another. This is a common mistake these days, people believe 'normal' to be what they have lived/grown up with. If you go to palestine (for example) its 'normal' to be around gunfire, for your kids to be arrested in the middle of the night and gone for weeks/months and years Most people point to the head when they say think. The prophet used to point to the heart. They do this in a lot of muslim countries as it is normal
****ing hell. Some people believe that if they're nice , they'll go to heaven. Others believe that this is the only life, so you might as well make the most of it. In theory, it still fits and the world is happy but it's not. Religious or not, just try to be nice to other people, they won't **** you over, you're life might not be ****. Simples.
Fan, when you die come back and tell us, neigh.. Enlighten us on this forum. I will await your response. Until then shut the **** up, because your religious dribblings are unwanted, uneeded and quite perverse in their understanding of the human race.
19 pages suggest otherwise me old mucker why is it people like you HAVE to respond, but the response is the above?
I have just joined "Mucker". People like me? I am unique my friend, so are you. You are very assured and convinced that what you have read is right. You are not right mate, you are so wrong you cannot see that you are being manipulated by the religious doctrinations that you were brought up with. I feel sorry for you and your children that they will end up with the same unbalanced view of life.
But you were talking about arguing for the sake of it, not forgetting. At 7.19 JJS said 'I can't even remember now.' to which I responded 'so arguing for the hell of it?' Well done. Thanks, knew you would get it eventually If possible. I'm sure they ate more often if they could. Sure they did, point being its not abnormal to eat twice a day at sunrise and sunset. Glad you got it Really. Yep Sorry, I should have said Muhammad and his supposed relationship with the sky fairy. Oh right, you know sky fairies dont exist. Muhammad was a prophet of Allah When was this? 1 example is when you said 'I might not have followed any ridiculous set of rules....' In case you have conveniently forgotten the 'you told me' was a DIRECT response to your question 'How do you know what I ignored?' Of course I do. The above suggests not But he's a non-believer who eats pork sausages. Which he eats as they are fed to him, he is not in a position to make up his own mind. As the quran says a child is not born a muslim,christian or jew his parents make him' so innocent and not guilty. There is a defined age when a person becomes responsible for his own actions. In the case of crtain disabilities this doesnt apply so youu will be glad to know heaven bound Allah doesn't do anything. He doesn't exist. Call him what you like a 'creator' exists and you know it too. deep down, as your tattos suggest But my boy does suffer. Otherwise he wouldn't cry and self-harm, you tit. I have explained it once you obviously judge everything based on how it feels to you, what you see as normal isnt so I can see this is getting to you by your swearing, I can go on if you want or leave it? An centuries ago, the whole of the world was religious. Fortunately, this has started to change in places. One day, hopefully everyone will be free of man's oldest curse. Suprisingly Islam is on the rise, even more suprising in places like america post 9/11 and countries like germany it has had the greatest increases. The return of the Khilafah is predestined so the world will be at peace once again LED Fan. Past tense. You do understand tenses don't you? Ahh spelling, really? led or lead, anger is the reason for your disbelief When did I say I believed in evolution causing it? I said that's a current theory. so you dont accept it? There are all kinds of theories. Increased mercury exposure is another. Like you say, not necessarily anything to do with my lineage. Besides, I went for assessment for ASD/Aspergers and they were negative. They did the same with us, All clear. now they have said another of my lads has hypermobility and its linked. They talk shoite as they dont know From what you said your lad was fine initially, I would suggest there maybe a link to one of the many jabs given. Maybe MMR because despite it being 'safe' there is a risk although slight. Come again? your forgetting what the argument is as you go along, either its on purpose who you are not very good at this Do you not have one? No. I go to mosques (plural) but I dont 'have' one Bollocks. Absolutely true I assure you, and they are not exactly practising to a T either. Its not the only example either. I have been to see families who had relatives killed in the military (abroad) and they dont cry etc as they are seen as martyrs and Islam says a martyr is not 'dead' in terms of what happens to a dead person upon dying in the grave etc No, they died and were no more. see above re martyrs. Inshallah <yawn> good man, it is due to the will of Allah Right.
nah you are not unique, there are a lot like you who sign in read just to post what you did I wasnt bought up with these religious doctrines so you are incorrect 'mucker', they have been through research and questioning (and remain so), its easier for your ilk to follow the crowd or the so called cool/in thing. I would worry about your own kids and leave mine to me
Have no problem with that Fan. (Daughter at Uni studying law. Son flipping burgers and shagging every weekend). Now just leave us alone and you will go to heaven.. Honest I tells ya!
For all of you who disbelieve there is a challenge in the quran why not take it up? In simple english the challenge is to produce in Arabic, three lines, that do not fall into one of these sixteen Bihar, that is not rhyming prose, nor like the speech of soothsayers, and not normal speech, that it should contain at least a comprehensible meaning and rhetoric, i.e. not gobbledygook. the Arabic language and Arab speech are divided into two branches. One of them is rhymed poetry. It is a speech with metre and rhyme, which means every line of it ends upon a definite letter, which is called the 'rhyme'. This rhymed poetry is again divided into metres or what is called as al-Bihar, literally meaning 'The Seas'. This is so called because of the way the poetry moves according to the rhythmic patterns. These are the sixteen al-Bihar: at-Tawil, al-Bassit, al-Wafir, al-Kamil, ar-Rajs, al-Khafif, al-Hazaj, al-Muttakarib, al-Munsarih, al-Muktatab, al-Muktadarak, al-Madid, al-Mujtath, al-Ramel, al-Khabab and as-Saria' In 1400 years despite many attempts by non religious scholars, jews christians and even muslims have tried and given up as they couldnt do it. Surely if it was an easy book to write, by an illiterate man according to some, it shouldnt be hard to produce 3 yes 3 lines
You are confused again dude. Read the post and you will see I am not "Joining the Bandwagon" I have many arguments to put to you, but on another day, tis late bye bye for now.
