Good point Fulhaman. My question is how do they know in Sky about problems? Someone must have a big mouth. Someone who can't stop moaning and complaining all the time! Do you know who that might be?
Haha good one Captain... Meant someone who when will make a call they will listen... A grumpy striker presumably who has been given higher status due to an Italian?
Yeah, I knew who you meant, Madness - he's certainly the most likely culprit. It's a shame. Bobby is one of those players whose career I always looked out for, due to his Micky Adams connections, and who I rated highly long before he came to us. He's been so good for us these last couple of years, but it looks like it's all going to end on a sour note. Still, as others have said, no one's bigger than the team, and we need to get a squad who are all pulling together. Time for radical squad surgery in January, or at least a heavy pruning session.
The players might be gagged from talking to the press about the internal affairs of the club, but are their agents ?
Fulhaman If the bench and Jol were instructing the players to go forward and attack, why did they choose to ignore him? Can't be a good sign. I hate it when people say 'we won't go down because there are 3 worse teams than us' What a horrible way to look at things, I don't want to be the fourth worst team in the league.
Fair point, Bandy. I don't want to be the fourth worst team either. I don't think we are. I have more faith in Jol than you do (as is obvious from each of our posts these last few weeks). Nobody should ever say that any team is too good to go down, but I do believe we've got enough quality to life ourselves up from where we are, as long as everybody pulls together. That means us as well as the discontents in the squad. I'll never accept the argument that fans shouldn't voice their opinions or be critical of the team - we're entitled to say what we think - but there is also a responsiblity on everyone connected to the club (including us) to pull together now to turn this around. Let's stop being so negative and get behind the team.
Captain, I agree - we're definitely not the 4th worst team in the league. Lets hope, as has been said on other threads that last night's debacle is a turning point and that that, together with losing the "distraction" of Europe and a freshening up in January we move onwards and upwards through the table. Another thought: how much worse would we feel if we'd qualified last night and lost to City or Utd in the last 16 when they can't be bothered with the competition anyway?!
Not much worse, to be honest Penguin. At least we'd be going out to better-resourced sides, rather than Wisla Krakow who we should have taken six points off (and would have done but for Dembele's harsh sending off). Not that I'm blaming elimination on the ref - we have only ourselves to blame for letting last night slip through our fingers.
All good points, Captain but I'm sure I would have felt worse - that's what I'm going to spend the afternoon convincing myself anyway!
Captain Don't get me wrong, when Jol came in I was delighted, and remained 100% positive after the Wolves, Newcastle and Blackburn games. It was however the Twente game which did it for me, when you combine bad football with bad results, you can look no further than the manager. There is still a lot of me which wants Jol to suceed, I would love nothing more than for us to give a reaction from tonight and for Bolton to get the brunt of it, but I just don't see it happening. The team have to get behind the manager and want to win for both him and the club. The players wanted Sparkplug to do well, they were apparently the ones who convinced MAF to keep him on after the West Ham game last year. Can you see the squad knocking on MAF's door this time round pleading with the chairman to keep faith with Jol?
Bandit, I see your point, but in the long run I don't think getting rid of Jol solves anything. He is and was the most successful manager available for a club like ours. You want Steve Bruce or Phil Brown? Solving the problem requires getting the team to play like a team, each member playing his appointed role and pulling for each other and the fans. Unfortunately, it seems from news and other reports, there are a few key players with whom Jol has problems - he's named AJ, BZ and Murphy ... but I bet there's also tension with Duff (who's not getting his usual playing time) and Dempsey, who's work rate has slowed to a crawl. The only way to solve this mini-mutiny is to get rid of the mutineers and crack the whip on the rest of the lads. Maybe these players don't like Jol and Fulham right now, but they'll like it even less battling in the relegation scrap heep for Wigan or Blackburn.
I'm not sure he would, not yet anyway. When our job and others were available in the summer he seemed to go out of his way to distance himself from them and it didn't seem like crafty managerial double-speak. I think he feels he has a job to finish at Huddersfield, and that he's still cutting his teeth. I'd love to see Lee Clark as our manager, but not for another five years or so. Sadly, I have a nagging suspicion that he's more likely to end up at Newcastle - which will always be the biggest draw for him - rather than us. DR, I'm not so sure about Duff. I think Duff is frustrated at not starting all the time, but I don't think anyone has ever accused him of not putting in a shift when selected. To be honest, I was expecting him to have runs in and out of the team this season. Over the last couple of years he's had spells where he's been arguably our best player - the early Europa games, for example - and then other spells where he just doesn't look the same. At his age, he will benefit from being out of the starting eleven for a while, then coming in for a while once his batteries are recharged and so on. I don't think anyone would expect him to like it, but I also don't see him causing problems over it. Looking at the winners medals of our players, Duff has more reason than most to regard himself as Charlie Big-Potatoes; he's also one of the ones least likely to take that attitude. The words 'model pro' spring to mind.
You could be right about Duff, Captain. Just speculation on my part. He's a seasoned pro who's played at the very top of the league, so he has reason to carry a bit of arrogance, but (like you) I've never seen him put in less than 100% effort. He reminds me of AJ - quietly they get their work done. ... Thanks for the storm you (Brits) send our way. I think my cat must blew away.
After I replied to you, I saw this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/16/football-transfer-rumours-fernando-torres-liverpool It includes Duff in a list of senior players supposedly being lined up for a January clear out. So, you're not the only one speculating that way. I think releasing Duff with the others would be a mistake. If we are having a clear out, we'll want some old heads there to steady the youngsters, and as we've said Duff is likely to be a strong positive influence around the place, whether he's playing or not. I'd be sorriest to see Danny Murphy go if the article is correct, but he's got to commit himself to Jol's approach if he's going to stay.
Captain, how very interesting... Surprisingly BZ is not mentioned in there! Could it be someone else causing all this upset in the dressing room?? Someone shorter than Bobby?
Rumors like "January clear-out for Fulham's seniors" can serve two purposes, assuming they came from Fulham's management. It can be an alert to other teams that some decent players will be up for sale, but it could also be a warning and a threat to the mutineers out there that Jol's had enough with their behavior. It's time for the lads to decide. As for me, I don't want to see any of these players go. But at the same time, the team is more important that any individual players. The team can't have 25 managers, each with his own opinion about how things should be run (that's what internet bulletin boards are for). There can only be one manager, and whether the players like or dislike the formation and tactics is irrelevant.
It is interesting that we talk about the players failing to adopt to the manager's tactics. This was discussed some time ago and comparisons were made between the academy and senior team. Some of us think that certain players have learning difficulties or is simple business management terms they don't like change. Professionally you can address this by training, which is happening daily and restructuring.. The second one some times mean voluntreering redundancies! Chelsea is another example...
