It's over...? (OT)

Yet, you self advertise.

 

A dig at America?

 

They were actually with us from 42-45 (well actually December 1941) and only because they got bombed by the Japenese. It wasn't until the war actually effected them did they give a ****.

I'm glad they joined because we would be speaking German right now if they hadn't, but they needed us as much as we needed them. They could have stayed out of it and watched us get owned by Hitler, and then waited until Germany and Japan decided they needed more Lebensraum, and attacked America or forced them to join their side.

We all needed each other in the fight against the Axis, in the end it was really Hitler deciding to take tactical control his own army that ****ed him over. He sent too many troops without adequate supplies to different parts of the world, mainly Russia, where a significant portion of his army froze their bollocks off to death.

 

Take the joke

 

They did send resources to western allies and Russia from 39.

I'm more thankful for the USSR, than USA. EDIT: And Hitlers insanity, in the later years.

 

You realise of course that the Taliban are in Afghanistan not Iraq right?

 

Yes, but by "there" I meant in the middle eastern areas. The only just cause I would have seen in America going anywhere near there was to help the innocent people getting abused. Assassinating Bin Laden and Hussain did **** all but piss off their followers, and anyone with a brain would have known this. The American government obviously love the stupid rednecks that infest a lot of the USA that shouted "we need to take out that dang Osama Bin Laden". The sheeple where pleased, and the US government were cheered on. Diversion successful.

 

All very true unless you've actually picked up a history book. By 1942 we'd already defeated the German Luftwaffe, making the German invasion of the UK virtually impossible. The 7th Armoured in Libya had also defeated the Africa Korps, destroying Hitlers plans to take over Africa and the Gulf. Granted, we couldn't have invaded Europe without the Americans but weren't under much threat of invasion ourselves by that stage.

 

Two totally different countires and totally different reasons for invading. Iraq and why we invaded has already been discussed. The reason we are in Afghanistan is because it's a lawless dump that was providing arms, money and training for terrorists. There is direct evidence showing that the guys from New York, Madrid & London bombings obtained their training & funding from the Taliban in Afghanistan, they're also the largest suppliers of heroine in the world. that's why we invaded there.

 

Well I may have exaggerated when I said we would have been speaking German right now, I know that technically the Germans hadn't the men and resources to truly take us over. You would have thought I would have said this in the same comment I pointed out that Hitler ****ed himself over by not adequately supplying and tactically supporting his own army.

Who knows what may have happened if the US hadn't have stepped in. It would have been a giant stalemate. There's no way Hitler would have surrendered, seeing as he was in the eyes of the world, a giant war criminal, and probably would have been put to death or imprisoned for life.

 

[video=youtube;ifZK6SVlQ1Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifZK6SVlQ1Y[/video]

 

Yes as I pointed out in an earlier comment, but not for the reason you pointed out about the Taliban training terrorists, the Taliban needs to be rid of. My main reason for this is because they abuse and torture their own people, and because I don't agree with the idea of Militia's in any part of the world. The idea of giving any random person that applies a weapon and authority is disgraceful.

 

I don't think they have achieved what they wanted to otherwise they wouldn't be pulling out, US wanted control aswell as oil, its a little known fact but if you control the middle east you gain alot of power due to massive oil resources and its general position on the map. Countries have tried to conquer it before, remember Russia, infact America sold weapons to Saddam Hussein to stop this, little did he know a few years later they would infact invade him ..

The only ally they truly have in those parts is Israel, America give billions of dollars a year to Israel for a various reasons (another topic)..

Infact Israel and Iran are the ones that hold the power, its on a knife edge at the moment and if one attacks the other then a number of countries are willing to jump on either side ( I.e Israel-America probably U.K, Iran- China and Russia) thus starting world war 3..

 

Can thank Russia for that. If Hitler kept pounding the UK for a few more weeks(Battle of Britain), Britain would of been done for.

 

I don't want to get into a war of statistics especially when people's lives and/or livlihoods are involved, but when you highlight 150,000 civilian deaths due to the Iraq war, you have to understand that it is an absolute fraction when compared to the huge number of people destroyed by Hussein and his regime. For example, within one month in 1991 a southern uprising and rebellion against years of repression ended in Hussein being responsible for the death of around 180,000 and the monumental destruction of the historic way of life for thousands of people. This is just one incident of many.

I know you keep repeating the reasons why the U.S. went to war and how they were untrue but I've never disagreed with you there, I've said since my first post that the whole Iraq war is laden with mistakes and embarrasments etc.

My opinion is simply that Hussein needed to go, he is now gone and therefore for you to say that "**** all" was achieved in the Iraq war is wrong.

Good luck with your exam btw .

 

Turned into quite an interesting thread considering it started off about Iraq.

What I was trying to make out about the Americans was that apart from them, Australia, Canada and New Zealand sending food parcels over, (a shortage of everything here at the time because of the Germans sinking supply ships) there was also a lot of them that came over to enlist with our forces before America joined the war.

 

The USSR would probably have supplied even more man power and won the war by attrition. Hitler would probably have shot himself in this scenario as well...

 

Sorry to be joining this late.

I blame Carter for Iraq! In the early 70's the US was the worlds biggest oil producer and a net exporter. He took bungs from the US car manufacturers to shelve legislation forcing them to keep up with European and Japanese car manufacturers in terms of fuel efficiency, hence why americans drive massive fuel burning behemoths. By the end of the decade the US was now an net oil importer. But who could they get oil from? The middle east is unreliable and didn't like them due to their support of Israel, the Russians were communists and Venezuala and Nigeria were unstable military juntas. Thus started the US foreign policy of courting the Saudis and desperately looking for a politically secure source of oil. Iraq gave them that opportunity, an American puppet in the middle east. All because a peanut farmer from Texas needed campaign funds from GM and Ford!

I agree with skalpel Hussein needed removing but he wasn't removed because of decades of human rights abuses and the genocide against the Kurds and Marsh Arabs. It was the oil they wanted. Otherwise they would have also removed the dictators in Burma, Zimbabwe and numerous other desperate countries. But alas no oil, so democracy and freedom isn't for them!

 

Spot on, all of that. Ethically speaking he should have been rid of years ago, but he wasn't because there was no incentive; there was nothing to gain for the US or any nation with the power and economy to challenge. Now with the recent Iraq war there was something to gain, there was a reason to move into Iraq and Hussein is gone, the regime is gone; that is one seriously positive achievement regardless of motive.

 

Removing Saddam was a convenient reason to stay there for 8 years It's like the Libya situation. Let's stay there take all the oil (France now has more than 30% of all oil in Libya) , wipe out the leader to look like winners and quietly leave. Or Ivory Coast for that matter , with cacao the target this time.

But other countries (Syria) with dictators and killers at the helm that don't have anything that is in USA's interest?

Who cares , let them solve it themselves