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Miami Showband massacre: HET raises collusion concerns

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Mind The Duck, Dec 14, 2011.

  1. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

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    Yes that much is clear, Nairac would have been accused of the Omagh bombing if he was still alive.
     
    #61
  2. Mind The Duck

    Mind The Duck Well-Known Member

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    A. The UVF's plan was that the bomb would explode once the minibus had reached Newry, killing all on board. However, Martin Dillon alleged that the bomb was meant to go off in the Irish Republic.[21][34] He suggested that had all gone according to plan, the loyalist extremists would have been able to clandestinely bomb the Republic of Ireland, yet claim that the band were republican bomb-smugglers carrying explosives on behalf of the IRA.[35] They had hoped to embarrass the Irish government, as well as to draw attention to its underpatrolled border.[35][36] This would have resulted in the Irish authorities enforcing tighter controls over people crossing the border, thus greatly restricting IRA operations.

    B & C

    Nairac often moved between borders hanging around republicans and singing songs

    So if he was murdered because he was a soldier why not do it sooner

    If he told his killer nothing, what could they possibly be interrogation him about...and why hide his body unless he was guilty of something greater than just being an officer

    2 people have said it was him

    2, one deceased saw a man of his description at the scene

    It's good enough for me

    It's also noted how you have glossed over the fact that a British Officer was there...supporting the claim of collusion.....British....English not Irish....involvement
     
    #62
  3. Medro

    Medro Well-Known Member

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    Wikipedia is a wonderful thing
     
    #63
  4. Mind The Duck

    Mind The Duck Well-Known Member

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    I agree
     
    #64
  5. ManDingo 20"/20"

    ManDingo 20"/20" MDMA Guru

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    please log in to view this image
     
    #65
  6. Mind The Duck

    Mind The Duck Well-Known Member

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    You haven't cared about this thread on four occasions now
     
    #66
  7. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

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    No I mentioned the "British Officer" it was you who said it was Nairac despite no one claiming that at the time, and as Medro rightly says there was plenty of collusion going on, on both sides, it seems the British collusion is the only type to be condemned.

    I'll say it again in case you missed it, no one - apart from one man who spent some time in a loony bin - has ever said it was Nairac, not even the IRA until LONG after he was murdered and tortured.

    And also as Medro says, Wiki is hardly a "source" and the fact that you are trying to use it as such shows how thin your argument is.
     
    #67
  8. Medro

    Medro Well-Known Member

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    This.<ok>
     
    #68
  9. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

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    There is still a great deal of speculation regarding the exact circumstances of Nairac’s abduction and killing and I would like to add another aspect to the abduction part. Let’s first look at some details that are widely agreed on:

    1. Nairac displayed a behavior, including his cockiness, that rubbed some people the wrong way

    2. The men Nairac ran into were not IRA men,

    3. The men who beat and abducted him did not know who he was.

    http://thebleedinghills.copperhillmedia.com/tag/miami-showband-killing/

    As I said, just luck, synchronicity or mere happenstance that they killed the man who was behind this act.
     
    #69
  10. Mind The Duck

    Mind The Duck Well-Known Member

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    In addition, "Surviving Miami Showband members Steve Travers and Des McAlee testified in court that an Army officer with a crisp English accent oversaw the Miami attack" - see Miami Showband killings - the implication being that this was Nairac.[35] Fred Holroyd and John Weir also linked Robert Nairac to the Green and Miami Showband killings
     
    #70

  11. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

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    Yet they did not know him so how could they "identify him"? "Who" made the "implication" that it was Nairac?

    No one apart from people with an agenda. It's nonsense pure and simple, as I said, history is being rewritten to suit some people because It gives some sort of backdated excuse to justify his Torture and murder.
     
    #71
  12. Mind The Duck

    Mind The Duck Well-Known Member

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    Former RUC Special Patrol Group member, John Weir, who was a loyalist paramilitary, claimed he had received information from an informant that Nairac was involved in the killing of Green:[34]
    &#8220;
    The men who did that shooting were Robert McConnell, Robin Jackson and I would be almost certain, Harris Boyle who was killed in the Miami attack. What I am absolutely certain of is that Robert McConnell, Robert McConnell knew that area really, really well. Robin Jackson was with him. I was later told that Nairac was with them. I was told by&#8230; a UVF man, he was very close to Jackson and operated with him. Jackson told [him] that Nairac was with them.
    &#8221;
     
    #72
  13. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

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    Ok so you are using WIki as your source so what sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, you left these bits out>

    It was alleged by a former MI6 operative, Captain Fred Holroyd, that Nairac admitted involvement in the assassination of PIRA member John Francis Green on 10 January 1975 to him. Holroyd claimed in a New Statesman article written by Duncan Campbell that Nairac had boasted about Green's death and showed him a colour Polaroid photograph of Green's corpse taken directly after his assassination.[32]

    The Barron Report stated that:
    The evidence before the Inquiry that the polaroid photograph allegedly taken by the killers after the murder was actually taken by a Garda officer on the following morning seriously undermines the evidence that Nairac himself had been involved in the shooting.

    Also Holroyd's evidence was questioned by Barron in the following terms:

    The picture derived from this is of a man increasingly frustrated with the failure of the British Authorities to take his claims seriously; who saw the threat to reveal a crossborder SAS assassination as perhaps his only remaining weapon in the fight to secure a proper review of his own case. His allegations concerning Nairac must be read with that in mind.[33]

    Martin Dillon, however, in his book The Dirty War maintained that Nairac was not involved in either attack.[36]

    The Pat Finucane Centre stated when investigating allegations of collusion between the security forces and loyalist paramilitaries, that although Nairac has been linked to many attacks, "caution has to be taken when dealing with Nairac as attacks are sometimes attributed to him purely because of his reputation".[39]
     
    #73
  14. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

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    Hearsay evidence is no evidence at all, especially when it comes form men who were implicated themselves.

    I was told that Santa was real.
     
    #74
  15. Ciaran

    Ciaran Going for 55

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    How is it an amazingly daft answer? These people consider themselves British, not Irish. It is within their right to do so. Ask Medro is he British or Irish.

    Nairac, meh. We will never know so it is pointless. My 'Correctimondo' answer was a quip for a reaction. No one has suggested that history should say that the Brits should be blamed for every killing in Ireland, just the ones they were involved in. Is that not fair? People like you try and paint the BA as some sort of neutral force trying to keep the crazy Paddies apart. That is nonsense.
     
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  16. Mind The Duck

    Mind The Duck Well-Known Member

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    He also seems to have taken on tasks which were outside his jurisdiction as a liaison officer &#8211; working undercover, for example. He apparently claimed to have visited pubs in republican strongholds and sung Irish rebel songs and acquired the nickname "Danny boy". He was often driven to pubs by now-Conservative MP Patrick Mercer, who was then an Army officer.[13] Former SAS Warrant Officer Ken Connor, who was involved in the creation of 14 Int, wrote of him in his book, Ghost Force, p.*263:
    &#8220;
    Had he been an SAS member, he would not have been allowed to operate in the way he did. Before his death we had been very concerned at the lack of checks on his activities. No one seemed to know who his boss was, and he appeared to have been allowed to get out of control, deciding himself what tasks he would do.
    &#8221;
     
    #76
  17. Ciaran

    Ciaran Going for 55

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    The fact that the good captain was an undercover British soldier involved in Ireland justifies his killing. Nothing else is needed.
     
    #77
  18. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

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    Therefore any killing of IRA men/women by British forces was justified?

    Fair enough.
     
    #78
  19. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

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    Wiki again? Has that not been proved to be a source of nothing at all?

    Give it up.
     
    #79
  20. Ciaran

    Ciaran Going for 55

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    Of course. It was a nasty business and those taking part knew the score.
     
    #80

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