Depends what you define as a 4-4-2 the traditional two banks of four would get absolutely wrecked in the modern game though. The No.10 role is definitely not dead though. I agree with that.
Why do you say the 2 banks of 4 would get wrecked ? If we go back some seasons our preferred midfield has been: 2022/23 - Partey anchoring, Odegaard on the right, part helping Partey, Xhaka pushed forward released from defensive duties. Zinchenko helped out as the inverted fullback at times but the bulk of the work defending was done by Partey, lets call it 2 players helping defensively/protecting the defence. (For part defending I'm assigning 0.5 of a player) 2023/24 - Rice anchoring, Odegaard on the right part helping Rice, Havertz on the left until Feb 2024, with minimal help from inverted full back (Zinchenko). Call it 2 players helping defensively. After Feb 2024 Havertz got pushed up top, Rice got pushed forward into the left CM role and midfield was anchored by either Partey or Jorginho. Kiwior and Tomiyasu largely held the LB spot. With minimal inverted full back play you can say defensively we had 2-2.5 players. in 2024/25 - Partey anchoring, Rice LCM, Odegaard RCM (both players helping defensively). In the second half of the season Rice was pushed further forward, inverted fullback was MLS and Calafiori. So again 2-2.5 players defensively. Now, you might be wondering why I did that analysis. If you are saying 4 across the middle would get overrun I don't see how when for the past 3 seasons we have had a maximum of 2-2.5 bodies in midfield when we lose possession - its at that point when we are at our most vulnerable, not when we have men behind the ball. With a 4-4-2, depending on the personnel you could have a double pivot in the middle protecting the back 4, thats 2 defensive players from your midfield 4. Fair enough, the wide midfielders are most likely to be wide forwards but there is nothing stopping us from having an inverted fullback like we currently do, thats another 0.5 defensive players added. I don't see how we would get overrun more than we get now.
Because I watched football between 2004-2013. You don't remember Mourinho going 4-5-1 against us and battering us during this period? Even Pulis/Allardyce adopted the tactic while Wenger steadfastly clung on to a dying system. We saw the adoption of 4-3-3/4-5-1 and then 4-2-3-1 quicker in Europe than the Prem and that was one of the key reasons for Wengers lack of success in the competition IMO. No. Not exactly In 2023/2024 - we played a 4-2-1-3 (It's similar this Season) Three central mids with Zincheno Inverted effectively giving us FOUR central mids. In 2024/2025 we had MLS Inverting but also Havertz dropping deep - At times you could argue we had FIVE midfielders plus the two wingers. The game has become all about overloads. Creating little pockets where you have a numerical advantage. Can you not see how a 4-4-2 would get absolutely swamped by this style of play?
I see your point but don't agree with the cause of the problems around the Mourinho era. Its well documented by now and even Rooney said it in his podcast the other day, SAF used to train the same way for Arsenal, they played counter attack football against us because they knew they would get lots of chances and he said he actually enjoyed those games. Maureen did exactly the same - we could all see it for years but for years it was the same old same old, us playing too open and attacking all the time, Maureen and SAF let us have possession and hit us with deadly counter attacks. That has nothing to do with the formation, if your tactics are gung ho attack then you will get ripped to pieces by any team thats well organised and defensively solid - like those Maureen and SAF teams were. Plus they were deadly on the counter. You are right, teams used to park the bus and bully us defensively, but again that had nothing to do with the formation, it was because Wenger decided that small technical players was the way forward and ignored the physical side. In any case we adopted 4-3-3 (the 2009 season I believe), thats when Pulis had his success with us mostly. TheBear, I can say the same thing, if you claim up to 5 midfielders because someone might push into midfield for a bit when we have possession I can do the same for a 4-4-2, there is nothing stoping a fullback from pushing into midfield plus the wide midfielders always drop back at some point anyway, thats potentially the same 5 midfielders. Its not when we are in possession that we have the problem, the overload in midfield helps us dominate possession, its when we lose the ball that is the problem. Think back to how many times Zinchenko lost the ball in midfield and we were immediately put under enormous strain. Its turnovers and counter attacks that pose the problem and as you have already seen this season, we are getting cut to pieces by everyone. So no, I don't see the formation as the issue its deployment of the formation. If one simple ball on a counter immediately cripples us something is massively wrong. Defensively I don't think we lose anything with a 4-4-2 but I think offensively it better suits the players we have. We are probably not going to agree on this but, thats what makes the game so great LOL.
