Off Topic Starmer/Reeves: The Dream Team!

By the way @Pure River Slut and @Northumberland Rocks I appreciate the discourse even if we have points of disagreement, I think this is the way forward, disagreeing but still being cordial.

 

We’re way way down that multicultural route. More than people realise. I welcome it. Britain of old is idealised. The rest of your analogy is just about managing things. No one denies we shouldn’t manage things.

 

Yeah I agree mate.

 

Maybe the UK of old is idealised, I wouldn’t dispute that. It’s not all Father Brown and Grantchester and it never was.
But when will the UK stop being the UK? Like many of my generation (X) we think that the UK of today is morally and culturally miles away from the one we grew up in and the generation of today seem to be apathetic to everything that happened in the past that made the UK a great country (and yes I get the irony of what I’m saying considering my current place of residence). The UK was known for fair play but now that seems to have gone out the window. Maybe I’m just getting old and crotchety and just don’t like the way the whole world is going at the moment.

 

See Rayner has been crying to the media, because she has been caught and cant find a way out. Greed is the downfall of many an MP, but in her case I hope the sanctimonious creep gets thrown to the wolves.

 

I totally agree but my biggest concern is around religion, was born C of E , now probably atheist i can say i disagree with most religions but one where you are not allowed to say anything against them is being pushed the most and people have been murdered for even drawing pictures. This country is supposed to be based on freedom of beliefs or non beliefs.

 

The problem with a lot of modern day young is the anti British brainwashing in university. All these pulling down of statues of historic figures because of something that was acceptable 200 years ago or what the British empire did. If we use these principles should hadrians wall be pulled down,it was built by a brutal empire the Romans built with slaves. It is also calling Scots savages, then all other historic structures around the world built by slavery and murder. Why do the left draw the line at the British empire and not before.?????

 

I think we have that bottom bit in common. I’ve also gone much more soppy and my enduring wish is that all of our kids can have fun again and families can have less worry and a cushion. I honestly believe that this is caused by money being pulled upwards. That’s where I think people need to focus and not dinghies as much as it needs to be managed and made safe. I think if we had more investment in services that provide positive things for families the more people blend the more safe we feel. Underinvestment on joyful things is causing chaos and the money exists it just goes into some people’s savings.

 

I agree with much of that, with the caveat that if people are deliberately offending people not just asking questions they are also weapons. For the record I do challenge some of this with people I know - eg how can you say there are no gay Muslims when I know one, if they choose to what can’t Muslims drink alcohol (there are many), why do you oppose mixed marriages (there are many btw) . There are extremists in all quarters though- those you’re mentioned, those who despise women having abortions, those who go into asylum hotels with balaclavas on or say we should plant mines in the sea. Like was said earlier there is a healthy middle ground and inevitably those who stubbornly won’t flex.

 

The extreme on both side should be put in a field to fight it out and leave the rest in piece

 

Or where they often end up anyway. Porridge

 

Not enough room in porridge though

 

There are probably some good conversations to be made around this point, one I want to drill down on is the quality of our elites in contrast to other times in the past, I think our current elites are more hands off than ever and less interested in having a healthy Britain and more concerned with what kind of profits can be made, I think this is because as individuals they do not connect with the people so fundamentally have less sympathy with them. This is partially a product of the elites becoming more international. I want to drill down on that last part especially because it's an inconvenience that needs confronting and understanding

There was a concept in the past of noblesse oblige (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noblesse_oblige), which simply meant, people in positions of power and influence have a obligation to the nation, a guiding role, this often meant that gentry died in wars at higher rates per capita than the peasant classes (yes, shocking I know!), we actually had a class that gave a fvck about us at one point, WW2 took many of them.

This is why I understand the clamour for Farage or types like him, it fits perfectly into the groove of history, the tension is if you're more leftward leaning you see him as a conman rather than someone who wishes to direct the country into an avenue that is saving it.

 

I think he’s a conman. Pure and simple. I also think he’s a self absorbed elitist who has no empathy. A narcissist. Dare I say it, I think he’s a racist and that’s part of his elitism, tax avoidance is part of his elitism and discrimination and those pesky need people need his multi millionaire tax to function and are not worthy.. He’s got a history for connection to racism and that in part fuels his politics. Of course he can be nice to the rich ones because they are allowed in his tax dodging gang who, like psychopaths, will turn on their own to keep their hordes. You can call me left of if I want everyday people to suffer left but it isn’t a direction of travel thing, it just about being human and passionate about those suffering while others have way life that they will ever need.

 

I'm just trying to explain what I see, it feels like you're very emotional about this issue (Farage), which is your right but it's better to try and view these issues in the cold light of day, they will come to pass regardless anyway and a clear head will allow you to be more analytical about what is happening and why it is happening.

 

Il be honest, I think we are being cleverly hoodwinked into making things worse for our communities. I am emotional about it because I am scared of the future for my children under him, more than ever before. I just don’t want people in my area to fall for his hustle without knowing the wider backstory.

 

I take it you accept our present pm is a tax dodger with a pension specific for him you or I cannot get it so in my eyes that is tax avoiding. What is the difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion, an expensive tax advisor

 

Are the people voting for him not saying exactly the same thing though