Off Topic Starmer/Reeves: The Dream Team!

Unbelievable. Mind some of my family especially my uncle were unbelievably racist back then

 

You hope times move on but look at the racism and hatred in this country but for many like some on this thread they haven’t.

im all for robust immigration but not based on racism and hatred.

 

There's a right wing meme called Ngubu, about loving your local African striker, it's perpetuated from the far right and the intention is to make people stop following football, "bread and circuses" or the even worse "N*****ball". If you're on the left and you're coaxing out something that moves them away from supporting their team, understand that you're doing what the far right do but from the opposite end.

 

I'm increasingly apathetic about what's going on, it's all become quite predictable and barring some divine intervention I'm shocked at how people can't see what's going on.

Young people will adapt whilst older people will stay on earth another 20-30 years unable to change, they will go to the grave believing what they believed in their formative years. Here's the kicker, everything you think I'm talking about, is exactly in reverse.

When we start talking about the racial makeup of a football team, it's already over, because we can move from fast twitch muscle fibre to IQ quickly and people will be a gasp whilst teenagers consume a hundred hours of podcasts that convince them of whatever the prevailing and rebellious thought is. As the bairns say, we're cooked.

 

Definitely not doing that. I think it’s probably a protective factor so a really good thing. I just said I wonder how people rationalise it.

 

You have to believe there is some room between these two things. You can be concerned about certain topics and not be a racist, if you don't believe that, understand that the country is utterly finished because dialogue can't happen.

 

I heard a story a few years back, I think it was Shaka Hislop, when he was with the mags…anyway he stopped his car somewhere in Newcastle and he started getting some pretty horrible racial abuse then one of them recognised him as their goalkeeper and they apologised saying they wouldn’t have said it if they knew it was him.

I’m not having a go at the mags here because look at the borderline racists on this SAFC thread alone.

We were progressing as a country but thanks to Farage and his billionaire backing he has emboldened all those with racist tendency’s. When the rich right control the media and manipulate the gullible we are in frightening times which we are seeing.

as aside I believe in robust immigration but that is balanced with the economic and public services of the country, not racism and hatred.

 

There has been too much immigration, that's why things are falling apart, this isn't blaming any individual or even group for wanting a better life, it's just the reality. All of these things, Farage etc are symptoms of receiving massive amounts of immigration. At the base level people are instinctual, they see lots of change and they don't want it, it's not ideological it's evolutionary. It's important to understand this if you want to keep this country from being ripped apart.

 

I agree with a lot you say and Farage and his non dom billionaire backers are using this to push for their ultimate goal of power to reduce public services and get rid of the nhs.

Given that Farage is largely responsible for the massive rise in immigration through Brexit (telling us to ignore the experts who told us what would happen) why anyone would believe him is beyond me. Particularly working class people who by voting for him are voting against their better interests.

Perhsps we need Farage in power to see what a **** he and his backers really are.

 

Farage exists because people want him, without mass immigration he doesn't get a look-in, that's the brutal reality. The governments of the last two decades had ample opportunity to stop this but they thought they knew better, well now we're all paying the price, if you're on the left you're likely getting a Farage government, if you're on the right you're getting infinite migration.

I agree Farage won't be able to solve the problem, to untangle the legal infrastructure and actually see/feel a tangible decrease in immigration whilst trying to balance an economy is an almost impossible task especially in a single term, which he will undoubtedly only get. Here's the problem, what comes after Farage might not be a shift to the left, especially if people feel Farage was hamstrung or didn't achieve enough.

For me the blame lies with all govs circa 2000-2025.

 

‘Angela Rayner admits wrongdoing’


Another scandal for this government. They’re taking the piss just as much as the previous Tory governments.

 

Good post mate....agree with all of that. What some need to realise is that the stable door has been opened,the horse has bolted and gone. Even if any Govt was to stop migration from tomorrow,the problems would still exist. There isn't a way in which hundreds of thousands of people can be picked up and deported,having arrived here perfectly legally over the last 25 years.
As far as the racist argument goes,to me,some people are confusing racism with culturalism. Almost every human in the world wants to be with and enjoy their own culture....and they get itchy when they see it being usurped by another....exacerbated when it's expressed in languages they can't understand....it breeds suspicion and mistrust......something the respective Govts. over the timeline you mention would have done well to have understood.

 

I don’t think there are many who don’t think immigration isn’t getting too big and there is a risk to safety if we don’t know who’s who. Equally people implying that our women and children are at risk with the finger pointed at brown and black people is not correct. There are good and bad in all and plenty of harm caused by Friday night drinkers in northern towns and cities in their own homes. I was listening to a bloke on LBC saying when I walk down the street there are coloured people everywhere. That’s the bloke I’m wondering about - for me I’m really not bothered if people seem decent, have lived in big cities and it becomes irrelevant, I love what cultures bring generally. How does that bloke cope with sport if he sees danger in colour?

 

Our ‘culture’ is already mixed.

 

See my take is that the country is being ripped apart by inequality of wealth. You take that away and you remove the breath of Farage. There’s a huge similarity between the lads who land and working class white boys. They want things to be better but have little agency because we are all owned by the man with the cash. That same man uses his wealth to control our politics.

 

You also have to leave room for people using wonky language or being bad at articulating their feelings, especially on topics like this where they're bordering on politically correct topics and therefore people are less rehearsed or even exposed to better talking points.

People saying things like "there are blacks everywhere", is uncouth but he likely means, "where I live was 95% native ethnic British in 1990 and now that's down to 55% and I don't think that's okay, whether it be here in England or in Japan or Nigeria".

Suddenly there are concepts to confront and points to counter, rather than simply hearing bigotry.

 

Yeah but there are facts and problems. The fact may be a changing reality so true. The issue is whether you give a **** about blacks being in your street. I don’t want arseholes on my street, but it’s not about colour. For some it’s about not wanting colour or different cultures or religions. Some cope better with change but generally I’d say the bigger the mix the less the problem unless it’s in your own mind or prejudice.

 

And the reason why he doesn't think it's ok is because he doesn't feel safe,he feels like he's an outsider in a place he formerly knew as home,where he felt comfortable,where he belonged. One of the problems,as you point out,is that people have difficulty in articulating those feelings.......which others construe as racism.

 

There is a problem with our elites, who are increasingly Rushi Sunak and decreasingly Rees-Mogg these days (observation, not value judgement), which will expose some discomfort amongst parts of the left in the near future. We're influenced a lot by international orgs these days and the people at the head of those institutions are usually not British, meaning less connection and ultimately obligation to Britain, we need our talented people to stay and thrive and this means doing well in business, making good money (not extortionate) and feeling rewarded for hard work means they actually want to stay and have genuine care for the country, a connection beyond making money can mean investment beyond extracting profit.

So, you're right that there is a class-element to what is happening, but it's not innate, it is more to do with the behaviours and these individuals being rationalised by not having connection and again, obligation, to the country.

And I'm sorry to say, there are a lot of people coming to this country who extract because they can, so why wouldn't they? They have no obligation to this place and they could be made to leave tomorrow.

 

Here’s an analogy. You host a party at your house and you invite 20 random people. You don’t know them but because you’re a generous host they are all welcome. One of those 20 people is a homicidal maniac who wants to murder someone there. Do you host the party or do you cancel it?
That’s the issue. The majority are not opposed to documented migrants entering the country legally. What they are against is undocumented migrants entering the country where their background isn’t known. I’m not saying that the majority of illegal immigrants are bad people, I’m sure they won’t be but If they were criminals in their own country they will likely be criminals in another.
And lastly multiculturalism. That’s the other issue. By having many cultures in the one place it will by its very nature dilute the one already there. What the UK needs is a multiethnic community but one that espouses the culture of the country they choose to live in.