There will be a Palestinian state in the same way that there are Native American nations. The only way an independent and capable Palestinian state exists is if it's supported by the other Arab nations and Hamas have accepted far too much Iranian money for that to be a possibility. Fatah is essentially already a puppet of Israel.
This is exactly what many in Israel are saying about your peaceful kumbaya proposal. As Windy has clearly demonstrated, he believes that a Palestinian state will simply change it's goalposts to remove Israel entirely. I have no doubt that @Spurlock would deem that acceptable, I have no doubt that countries like Iran, Lebanon and Pakistan 100% believe that should be the goal of Hamas. To remove Israel entirely when it get's the chance. Israel is not Afghanistan. It has an extremely advanced military, it has an extremely advanced intelligence service, for years it allowed Hamas to run riot in Gaza and that resulted in a massive border skirmish that killed over 1k people, I doubt the Israeli right wing will ever allow that mistake to happen again. The solution is simple for Israel, full control with a weak puppet local government beholden to Israel placed into Gaza. Checkpoints between neighborhoods, vast surveillance, citizen communication under complete control of the Israeli state. With these types of restrictions you have turned possible insurgencies into local uprisings that can be controlled street by street, area by area. This isn't armchair commanding, this is just retelling of events that have happened in the West Bank now for years. This isn't going to end in some signed document were everyone goes back to some imagined lines in the sand for a reset. Apart from all this Gaza is now a wasteland and Palestine has no money, Israel will be rebuilding it and can rebuild it however they see fit. As manageable as they see fit.
Hamas are finished mate. And any future Palestinian state would be headed up by a likely ally of Egypt, Jordan, Saudis and Qatar. All of whom will have normalised relations with Israel under the Abraham Accords. Lebanon has it's own problems and isn't concerned with trying to remove Israel. Hezbollah are largely ineffective too and most of the Lebanese see them as a thorn in their side anyway. I don't know why you're trying to draw Pakistan into it. The idea that a the goal of a newly established Palestinian state will be to wipe out Israel is for the birds. The first priority will be, along with it's Arab neighbours, a massive rebuilding project and that's going to take international support. Of which, yes Israel will need to be a part, because it legitimately has it's own security concerns. But it cannot be allowed to dictate what happens to Gaza and the West Bank based on its own security demands alone. There is an international mandate for a Palestinian state. The alternative, is as I've mentioned, endless insurgency either by Palestinians, proxy groups or another incarnation of whatever happens to the remnants of Hamas.
Palestine will never exist, simples aint it. Two state solution dead, Hamas didn't want it anyway, so **** them. Israel to remap the West Bank next. It's what Jesus would have wanted. Am Yisrael Chai.
Two state solution is closer than ever ... as Peter Gabriel once wrote.. the eyes of the world are watching you now ... recognition of 'Palestine' by France, the UK and Canada will shift the dynamic ... and it's not anti-semitism driving it ... just humanitarianism... been a long time coming...
Not sure I agree with the bit in bold. Palestine getting statehood isn't going to stop extreme elements there wanting to attack Israel. Especially after the destruction Israel has done to the population during this current stage of the conflict. There's no way that Israel are going to allow a fully autonomous Palestine state that comprises both Gaza and the West Bank leaving the obvious risk of Southern Israel being cut off by any attack. I agree with you on the principle that they should have self determination but in the real world it's not going to happen in any of our lifetimes.
Closer than ever? I highly doubt that as it was genuinely quite close at some point and ****ing miles away now. Israel won't give a shiny ****e what we or the other countries do. The only nation that can change Israeli policy is the US and that certainly ain't happening.
Neither was the end of Apartheid, the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the unification of Germany or an end to 'the troubles' in Northern Ireland ...
Only time will tell ...I remain an optimist... for reasons just given ... and, of course, Leicester City winning the Premier League ...
You're absolutely bang on with this, I certainly had the mind to say it myself regarding policy and the US - but I couldn't be arsed it's a complete and utter waste trying to convince certain people otherwise, and two years from now the same people will still be voicing the same nonsense. The only way this would change is by the removal of the Republican party in America and that ain't happening anytime soon, so if they want to believe in fairies that's up to them. Four more years is a favorite phrase of Fosse's and that certainly does apply here. What's laughable is an intelligent guy like him even thinks the British government hold any clout in this, ffs they've flattened Gaza beyond recognition, like any **** is going to listen to Starmer, it's for the birds. For the government to even acknowledge anything to the contrary on Netty, means we colluded and Kier will be up on aiding war crimes. KS can't go down that road without putting his own head on the chopping block after everything has passed. If there ever was to be a Palestine it would have been before October 7 there never will be now, because Netty and Trump hold all the cards. I'm a fair man, I'll give them until October 2027 for a Palestine to be agreed by all sides and in the construction process...it will not happen.
The humanitarianism though. The humanitarianism must count for something. If enough smug white people thousands of miles away want it then anything is possible surely.
Extremist elements yes, I agree there will be those, especially given what Israel has done to Palestinians. And of course there are extreme Jewish elements (even within the Israeli Govt). But I don't see a newly established Palestinian sovereign state, which will likely need to be supported with international cooperation having its goal being to wipe out Israel. They will be far more concerned with rebuilding Gaza, setting up a proper administrative state both domestically and on the international stage and operating as a bona fide entity. I would imagine that they will want to establish themselves in the eyes of the international community and be the opposite of what Hamas were. The excuse for preventing a Palestinian state based on the premise that they will try to wipe out Israel, is imo an excuse used by Israel to try and thwart Palestinian self determination. Because the goal of this Israeli Govt is to annexe Gaza and build more settlements in the West bank with the aim of eventually claiming all of the land for Israel When it comes to wiping out another 'nation' for all the talk of what Palestine might do, the reality is that it is Israel who are right now trying to wipe out Palestine, their people, and any notion of their independence.
Anyway, the Balfour declaration was never meant to establish a separate Jewish state of Israel. The idea was that a Jewish homeland would be provided in their historical homelands in Palestine and would be a mix of Jews and Arabs, with rights and protections for Jew, Arab and minority groups. It was the zionists who pushed for an exclusive separate Jewish state and then forced Arabs from their homeland during the Nabka.
I’m watching a low death toll over two years in immensely difficult circumstances to minimise civilian deaths with the IDF often putting themselves at risk to do so. Just basic maths would tell you that’s not the plan no matter how much fapping we get from the humanitarians of Bishop’s Stortford For Palestine (excluding when it comes to Jews).
