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Discussion in 'Hull City' started by Chazz Rheinhold, Jul 3, 2025.

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What’s gonna happen

  1. Temporary blip

  2. Complete ****ing collapse

  3. It’ll all be ok

  4. Relegation

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  1. Steven Toast

    Steven Toast Well-Known Member

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    Andy Smith being sold actually represents pretty good business. We didn't pay for him and I think people assume that because it isn't at KLP or Bowen levels of money, that it's disappointing somehow. He cost us nothing and we made six figures by selling him.

    If we can produce one a season that is sold on for that much or more, it represents a very good production rate.
     
    #1801
  2. HCAFCHangout

    HCAFCHangout Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the immediate requirements I think Toast’s post highlights them. Some points are vague but it does highlight

    In fairness on pathways. “Investment” wasn’t the right term. As the ideal scenario you’ve outlined is pretty much what I would like. It is about ethos and culture and I suppose there’s a mental investment as well some financial.

    I do get that the road to success is littered with players that fail. But increasing our odds on having more homegrown talent not just in the squad but in the league is a good thing. I personally don’t think it’s worth brushing aside just because a large percentage fail
     
    #1802
  3. Jim the Tiger

    Jim the Tiger Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. Coyle and Ashbee are likely to be the next two.

    I've no doubt being a Cat1 will help attract a higher level of talent from a bigger pond but its not as if the academy isn't functioning right now and there are far more pressing things to spend money and time on.
     
    #1803
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  4. kccircle

    kccircle Well-Known Member

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    It’s the way clubs should run. Bring 2-4 youth players into the first team each season , sell 2 and repeat
     
    #1804
    Drew likes this.
  5. SydneyTiger14

    SydneyTiger14 Well-Known Member

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    Players who have come into and succeeded in their first team. Just looking at their current squad they have 6 making appearances all academy graduates. My point being they were non league a few years ago, is the suggestion that they've just got lucky and a few efl quality players have popped along? Do pl clubs like Everton just get lucky that they manage to find players like dcl who do well for them (for a while) in the pl, or perhaps does their investment in their academy pay off?

    Ours is producing talent but to suggest klp and greaves popped through as brilliant players regardless of the academy quality is just silly.
     
    #1805
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  6. Jim the Tiger

    Jim the Tiger Well-Known Member

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    I've always felt its pretty lazy and short sighted for any club/manager not to insist an Academy player is on the bench.
     
    #1806
    HCAFCHangout and SydneyTiger14 like this.

  7. bradymk2

    bradymk2 Well-Known Member

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    Klp would have came through regardless of academy quality
    Hes one in a few hundred million

    But i get your point

    Its like what england and the fa did in the mid 2000s
    And its reaping rewards now
    Won the last two u21 euros etc

    But i think the legacy of our 3 prem promotions is disgusting
    The allams did the bare minimum for the academy
     
    #1807
  8. SydneyTiger14

    SydneyTiger14 Well-Known Member

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    I don't necessarily agree on klp, similar with Bowen. I don't think he was going to be a success regardless, it's just easy to think that because of where they've got to. But yes over time, increased investment and resources used on youth development will bear fruit. Not every year and not always at pl level, but the more you invest the higher quality players you will develop.
     
    #1808
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  9. bradymk2

    bradymk2 Well-Known Member

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    The higher resources also gives you a bigger reach to find potential young players

    And i disagree
    I think klp has so much talent, he would have ended in the prem
    It wasnt due to our coaching or not due to
    Hes jus a phenom

    Same with bowen
     
    #1809
  10. Chazz Rheinhold

    Chazz Rheinhold Well-Known Member

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    Rubbish
    He was tiny and was persevered with
    A lot of academies would have bombed him out
     
    #1810
  11. bradymk2

    bradymk2 Well-Known Member

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    thats missing my point
    thats a tale as old as time in this country unfortunately
    regards to size

    but im saying he would have made it in whatever academy if he was allowed to flourish
    we didnt have some special secret
     
    #1811
  12. Chazz Rheinhold

    Chazz Rheinhold Well-Known Member

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    Did he play for England u15’s etc
    No he didn’t
    So he wasn’t that special
    Give some credit to our academy
    They gave him the conditions to flourish and he took that
     
    #1812
  13. bradymk2

    bradymk2 Well-Known Member

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    not discrediting the academy, jut saying hes such a talented player, he would have made it, hes that much of a rarity
     
    #1813
  14. Steven Toast

    Steven Toast Well-Known Member

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    It's been said for a long time that we have one of the largest catchment areas for clubs as we're the only professional club in our county. I haven't checked but the only other I can think of that has just the one club is Cornwall and their biggest club (Truro City) are in the National League, nor are they even professional. We need to maximise that. We shouldn't be losing out to Leeds, Middlesbrough and Sheffield clubs, or even York, Scunthorpe or Grimsby. I taught Charlie Hatton when he was in Year 4, who is now in the U18s of Grimsby Town. He was born and raised in Hull but was in Grimsby's set up because City weren't interested in him (too small). Brightest lad in his year, humble and will make it as a pro at some point. But lads like that passed us by in previous years because we had a rather dated way of bringing players in at that level.

    I checked back to see which of the U21s who made it to the cup final against West Ham went pro (players in bold play for professional clubs now).

    Rory Watson - York City
    Brian Lenihan - retired
    Josh Tymon - Swansea City
    Max Clark - Gillingham
    Harvey Rodgers - Grimsby Town

    Ben Clappison - retired and works for the civil service (last played for Pickering Town)
    Tyler Hamilton - without a club since leaving North Ferriby in 2021
    Robbie McKenzie - Gillingham
    Ben Hinchcliffe - Beverley Town
    Greg Olley - Gateshead
    Jarrod Bowen - West Ham and England

    Johnny Saltmer - Last played for Buxton in 2021, now a model
    Adam Curry - retired, now manages a plumbing company near Ennerdale
    Will Annan - Bridlington Town
    Dan Batty - York City
    Josh Clackstone - Alfreton Town

    So our academy does produce a fair amount of professionals, especially for Gillingham apparently.
     
    #1814
  15. bradymk2

    bradymk2 Well-Known Member

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    thats a really good number of pros actually
    its easy to forget, just how insanely high the level to play in the prem is

    that pros at league 2 level is a success, even though it usually means no real profit
     
    #1815
  16. Steven Toast

    Steven Toast Well-Known Member

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    I've played at semi-pro level in my younger days and it's frightening to think that Rory Watson is closer to somebody like Donnarumma in terms of ability than I am to Rory Watson.

    Also, more than half that team going on to be professionals just shows how good that cohort was. Subsequent ones haven't spawned anything like as much talent, though I guess you'd have to check back in a few years as its probably unfair to use 20/20 hindsight on one group without the luxury of using it on another.
     
    #1816
  17. bradymk2

    bradymk2 Well-Known Member

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    its like that basketball players quote, the ' bad ' pros are closer to the messis and co than we are to them
     
    #1817
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  18. Jim the Tiger

    Jim the Tiger Well-Known Member

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    You forgot to mention Lincoln who also scout heavily in this area.
    The fact is City can only take on so many so Grimsby, Lincoln, Scunny etc will also fish in this pond because its better than their own. Leeds will take who they want because they're a far bigger club than us and many will have their heads turned.
    Tommy Coyles lad has gone to Huddersfield aged 10 so it's even further afield on occasions.

    We appear to be doing what we can as a club. There are satellite sessions/academies. After I passed my UEFA C I thought about applying for a role I saw the club advertise which I think was running the satellite one in Kirklees but I was advised to wait for something else which was coming up at another club. They're a great idea and without knowing tons about them I guess it costs the club a t shirt and a tracksuit to get decent players in other areas under their watch.
     
    #1818
  19. bradymk2

    bradymk2 Well-Known Member

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    with unlimited funds, youd have every single kid who likes football, and then filter down and down and down until you find the extremely good ones
    but thats not realistic obviously
    so you need to try and find as many as possible

    personally, i think the uk system needs to become similar to the german one, i think most spanish are the same too
    where school is included in the academies
    so when 99% dont make it, theyre not ruined as such
     
    #1819
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  20. Jim the Tiger

    Jim the Tiger Well-Known Member

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    It just wouldn't work even with billions to spend on scouting. Yeah, you would get plenty of good kids but they develop at different ages. You would need to be signing hundreds of kids at every age group and turning them over like cattle.

    At under 10s alone I've seen tons of very good boys. Really strong little players. The chances are all of them will end up being brickies, accountants and drug dealers. That's not to say they will have lots of fun on the way but the standard to get to even u10s at Hull City is incredible.
     
    #1820
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