So you’re in wine country and Oregon produces some pretty fine Pinot Noirs. I’ve been in Saskatchewan for the past fifty years. I often fancied driving south from Vancouver, along the coast through Washington, Oregon and California but somehow life always got in the way and it hasn’t happened. Nice chatting with you and best wishes.
Who left at the start of last season who'd have stayed to carry on with a squad though? I can only think of Seri (33 years old) and Tufan (wanted to go back to Turkey). Philogene and Greaves were always off, the loans expired and we let players Liam obviously didn't fancy like Connolly and Traore go.
I more mean we assembled a young squad but then seemed to go all in on going up that season with less long term planning in terms of how the deals were structured. Instead of Sharp, Giles, Omur or Carvalho in January, we should have been looking to make Morton or Delap permanent, or else bringing in other players to supplement the squad. We should have been looking to make Ohio permanent for instance, and building gradually for this coming season which would have been the third season at which point whilst some would have gone - Philogene, Greaves as you say, perhaps a few others - we would have built up a core of players who had played regularly together for a number of seasons.
We weren't affording either Delap or Morton though? So basically Ohio is the only one, and he barely got a kick under Rosenior. So had he stayed he wouldn't have wanted him anyway. Last summer was a complete rebuild regardless of what happened manager wise.
So then why bring them in the first place? Was it a genuine belief we were going to be able to go up? You're making my point.. I think we're basically agreeing? I'm saying that if you're going to assemble a young squad it needs to be with the longer term in mind. When we assembled that squad under LR it had huge potential but was clearly going to be reasonably inconsistent because they were both young and playing together for the first time. To expect it to achieve promotion and bank on that being the way to keep it together (I think we would have got Delap and Morton back if we'd gone up and obviously Greaves would have stayed) was beyond naive. When you assemble a squad as young as we did, and as Sunderland have done, you can't be banking on it all clicking and working in one season. Also, Ohio got more than 'barely a kick'. He came in, developed and was looking good by the end of the season. I don't think Rosenior had an issue with him at all by the time the season finished. And yes he was the only one because clearly Acun didn't do what I'm suggesting he should have.
Why bring loanees from Prem clubs for the season? To give yourselves the best chance of having a good year? Are you suggesting we never loan players again? You seem to be under the thinking that we had a young exciting squad LR had built, but they were all loanees. The young players he brought in were by and large atrocious like Lokilo. Acun did last summer what we've been wanting, young players with high potential on permanent deals. Hughes, Belloumi, Drameh, Millar etc. However due to poor management we struggled. As for Ohio, I'd have another look at his minutes. Started against Stoke, wasn't seen for 5 games then had a couple of appearances off the bench, all while we were desperate for a striker.
Don't mind having a few experienced heads in there but if that's the road we're going down then we need mobility and pace around them. We can't stack a midfield full of chuggers, we will be hopelessly overrun.
This is true and we have a very experienced squad of championship players, we lack the next level of experience, a handful of England caps..... and I'm not about to make the direct comparison but the Nick Barmby being Peter Taylor's best signing because he raised the level in training or the Jay Jay Okacha raising the squads aspiration.... it's that type of experience this squad needs
Generally you bring loanees either with a view to signing them permanently if they're successful or to supplement a strong core and be the final pieces to push you to promotion. Sometimes you might loan in more senior players who you wouldn't otherwise be able to afford. But loaning in youngsters with no view to signing them permanently is, to me, naive. I thought we had a chance of signing Delap permanently and think his injury came at the worst possible time, but there was talk as early as January that we were pushing to get a deal done. My broader point which has been lost somewhat in dissecting the players in that squad is that if we want to go down the route of a young squad rather than an experienced one is that it will take time. My point was that seemed to be the direction we were going under LR, yet Acun wanted it to be successful straight away, which as you pointed out, is exactly why the squad was set up to almost be auto-disassembled following the end of the season.
I agree. Also, Shelvey is a lazy bastard. Even when he was in his 20s, his supposed prime, his managers/coaches called him out for his poor work rate. He’s not become any fitter or hard-working with age.
I disagree with you on loans, most clubs will loan young players from bigger clubs. Also on Delap, his injury probably made us signing him more likely (even though it was always unlikely), as he ended with a low goal tally as a result. I agree with you on a young squad needing time, which is exactly what we have now. But this fanbase dismisses anyone unless they've been brilliant from day one. Already people are saying we shouldn't sign Zambrano as he wasn't world class in 8 games and also to get rid of Drameh despite him starting only a couple of games in his actual position. Could you please point me in the direction of the young up and coming players on perms we signed under Rosenior to outline this young squad he was building?
I don't know if its the fan base that dismisses the players as much as Acun looks to move on players almost as soon as they sign. Drameh already on his way out, Kamara being shopped around supposedly, Pandur linked with a move, etc. We didn't.. that's my entire point. It's why I said we were agreeing despite you seemingly thinking you were disagreeing with me. My point, for a third time, is that under Rosenior the clear direction was to bring in a young core of the squad - Morton, Philogene, Twine, Delap, Connolly, Simons - even Giles, Zaroury and Carvalho weren't particularly old, the issue is that the majority of those were loan signings or in the case of Philogene essentially a loan, and not intended for the long term but instead for the here and now, which isn't the way to do things with a young squad. The older players (aside from Allsop and then obviously Sharp in Jan) were signed pre-LR. I'll leave it there as we're just going around in circles.
