The smug, ‘right side of history’ white guilt, boycott Waitrose dates, Hamas-shagger vote was surely lost by Starmer months ago.
No mate ... never have, likely never will... ... and funnily enough, I actually agree with you on this - despite taking the obvious opportunity to push a few buttons... Indeed, our Government (and Starmer as PM) should have stood up way sooner to the all too obvious ethnic cleansing and wholesale societal destruction being perpetrated in Gaza for months and months... I suspect a huge catalyst on the timing of what, we, France and Canada have now done was the ambush and destruction of the ambulance convoy with its' obvious medical markings, flashing emergency lights etc - that irreparably popped the carefully controlled Israeli / IDF information bubble narrative being served to the blinkered and the gullible ... Hopefully other governments will now follow suit in terms of putting on pressure for an immediate ceasefire and the best chance for the safe return of any hostages that are still alive.
I've not really thought about what the trigger was for Starmer to take this stance with France and Canada, I will have to mull it over. It feels more of an empty gesture, made around the same time as his EU deal. Dare I suggest political gaming of the system for whatever reason, dangerous political games to play.
Spot on. This is classic face-saving at a point where interventions or sanctions really won't make an iota of difference to the fact that Gaza is a pile of rubble. Exactly the same nonsense over the Ukraine. Do enough to appear morally clean but nothing to actually solve the situation.
You and I are both in full agreement that not a single country ever acts altruistically out of ethical concerns. It is only and all about self preservation, ideally dressed up in the latest social justice warrior garb so that the masses will rally behind it. Most likely causes of this development: 1) Getting his arse handed to him in local elections 2) Pushing for new EU trade deals 3) Pushing for a trade deal with a Canada that is drifting away from the US Least likely cause of this development: 1) Concern for Palestinian babies 2) Concern for the hostages (or 'sausages' as Sir Keir prefers to call them)
To be fair, no one could possibly give less of a **** about either Palestinian babies or the hostages, than the Israeli government.
I understand brb's POV fully, but I think it's possible you're full of ****. Can you say what you would have felt was appropriate for the UK government to do first regarding Israel following Oct 7. and what the UK government should be doing in regards to Ukraine?
My 2p on why it is difficult for specifically the Labour Party to negotiate the Israel-Gaza issue. I preface this by stating I am NOT a Labour member or big "supporter" by any means. First, the Labour Party is the largest party in the UK by every metric, both membership and actual seats. It has right now the most diverse set of voters in the country and as we live in a parliamentary democracy has in my opinion right now the most difficult job of all the parties. On one hand, there are many people in the UK that support Israel, many businesses that trade in Israel and many influential people leveraging that interest to push Israel's interests. On the other hand, the Labour Party has thousands upon thousands of constituents that are pro-Gaza and want to see the end of Zionist Israel, they too have money, businesses, voting blocs and other methods to push this agenda at a local and national level that greatly affects the Labour Party. Keir Starmer has inherited a country that was extremely pro-Israel with a government that could afford to ignore the pro-palestine movement and has had to navigate this since day one. For most of his Prime Ministership we have seen a reduction in the conflict and not an overwhelming escalation which has occurred this past week. I honestly think the PM has navigated this issue carefully and in some ways the best he can. At the end of the day, the US is driving everything in Israel, not the United Kingdom and our influence is limited to almost none existent. If people wish for the UK arms industry to shrink, that's up to them, but I don't think the people working in that industry want to see that happen. On Ukraine I believe the Labour Party and in fact the Tory Party have done well. In fact, Labour has used the Ukraine issue to quite expertly wedge the UK back into the mix as a major European authority. Ultimately it is Bibi and Putin that must fix this mess and not continue rampant war crimes.
It's a difficult one for sure, and I've certainly no answers to either problem, Ukraine nor Israel. I think if Lammy had been praised by Fosse or Diane Abbott, I would probably have ignored it. But putting Keir Starmer up as the saviour in this situation was just a pisstake too far. However, whatever decision the Prime Minister makes he's going to get battered for, so I've not got a problem with him, I just didn't like the Fosse flag waving for the Labour camp.
I think Lammy has been trying to speak out for a long time, but been told to shut up and sit down by the powers that be. SKY News even rolled out Diane Abbott today, so it shows which direction the media is going in for sure, because I aint seen her on the telly for ages. But Starmer bruv
This seems another situation in which you are reacting with indignation at someone punishing Israel or Israelis. Your rants regarding the BBC, several UN agencies, now the UK government are coincidently always timed perfectly with the latest negative reports or now sanctions against Israel. This is also not the first time you have drawn a like for like comparison with the conflict in Ukraine to the one in Gaza, which is the Not606 equivalent to tossing in a few smoke grenades, especially on this thread. It has nothing to do with what the UK has done in Ukraine what so ever, there is no like for like at all.
I will support Israel's right to defend itself and exist right up until the point that they are openly starving children to ****ing death. The UKs sanctions are CORRECTLY timed and 100% merited.
I'd like this bruv, but I know CK is watching and he will bump me up the league in it's final week if I do.
Charming. Israel resumed its offensive on Gaza over 2 months ago. Aid has been blocked or at least severely curtailed for even longer - it was a precursor to the renewed assault, starting almost 3 months ago. The PRCS convoy attack happened 7 weeks ago. Israel's version of events was disproved and an investigation launched 6 weeks ago. If the UK really gave a ****, it should have done something ages ago. It didn't because all of the above happened while its various councillors and local politicians were on the campaign trail, desperately trying not to lose working class areas to Reform. As for Ukraine, don't get me started. Captain Fantastic's 'Coalition of the Willing'. Funny how they only magically became 'willing' after America pulled the plug and Vance humiliated Zelensky in front of world media. Before that? Nah, the stalemated war of attrition which neither side could lose or win suited us just fine. Starmer is currently on some ego-driven man-possessed crusade to Make Britain Relevant Again on the global stage, but the bottom line is: we aren't, and haven't been for many years. So instead of committing billions of the taxpayer's money to hopeless pipe dreams or too-late-to-matter posturing, I'd rather he used that money to fix the NHS and our education system.
