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WAR! What is it good for?

Discussion in 'The Premier League' started by Treble, Feb 11, 2022.

  1. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    All of this <ok>

    Trump is a classic case of Dunning Kruger effect. Overestimating his abilities and lacking the intelligence to recognise how far short he actually falls

    This was the guy who was going to end the war on day 1 with a phone call, and now he's threatening to walk away from it all

    Utterly useless as a negotiator. And has surrounded himself with equally as incompetent yes men.
     
    #15961
    Citizen Kane. likes this.
  2. Saf

    Saf Not606 Godfather+NOT606 Poster of the year 2023

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    See… It was just a misunderstanding. I did hint at that and I’m sure you guys who sympathised with Hamas for returning the wrong body by mistake understand that these things happen in an ever changing environment :)



    The Israeli military has said an "operational misunderstanding" led to the killing of 14 emergency workers in Gaza last month.
     
    #15962
    Diego likes this.
  3. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

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    The Pope is dead.









    I blame Israel.
     
    #15963
  4. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

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    I remember this convo like it was yesterday.

    That was the week you learned the difference between 'accident' and 'misfire'. I am pleased to see you are no using the correct terminology.
     
    #15964
  5. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

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    Your last point is want worries me most.

    The last Trump administration contained enough career politicians and skilled diplomats who - love it or hate it - were born and bred cogs of the Capitol Hill machine. They had their quirks and questionable motives, but the bottom line is they knew the game and knew how to play it.

    But Trump very quickly rooted out anyone not blindly loyal to him, which has left the current administration looking like a Looney Tunes ensemble.

    Trump and Netanyahu are very similar in this regard. In fact that latter is one of the best in world politics at rooting out anyone who won't lick his arse and killing their political career while it is too young for anyone to notice or care.
     
    #15965
  6. FosseFilberto

    FosseFilberto Pizzeria Superiore and some ...
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    Fair play to your memory, so do I ... I also know the difference between 'accident' and 'atrocity'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp317zx3r93o
     
    #15966
  7. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.

    I've condemned this incident since more or less day one.

    The disagreement I'm encountering is that some are looking at this incident and extrapolating from there that pretty much everything the IDF has done and continues to do is an atrocity, as if to say that this one incident sheds light on the whole operation.

    I look at it for what it is: an isolated atrocity among thousands upon thousands of missions and engagements. More atrocities may come to light in time, they are sadly common in war, but it is important and illogical to claim that this incident sheds light on the rest of it.

    Not saying you've said this btw, but it certainly seems to be the narrative the media are playing (and the reason this incident has received an insane amount of coverage, so much so that had Francis not died this morning, it would still be headline news after two weeks of in depth analysis).
     
    #15967
  8. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

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    Word on the street is there were six Hamas amongst the dead. Not the streets the Palestinian Red Crescent frequent, clearly. Doesn’t really matter when people can have another big old fap about Israel anyway.
     
    #15968
  9. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    I've never started a war.


    Never started a fight either, for that matter.*


    * Okay, once maybe. But he had it coming. And I didn't win that one anyway.
     
    #15969
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  10. Sucky

    Sucky peoples champ & forum saviour

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    I don't think they should be eating that tbh
     
    #15970

  11. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    Not sure the streets of Stamford Hill have much credibility on this issue either to be honest
     
    #15971
  12. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    Indeed. Trump did eventually root out all of the career diplomats during his first term, but thankfully he was out of office by the time most of the cull had been completed. The problem this time is that he's installed his own sycophants from the off, and it includes conspiracy theorists, people with zero experience in their dept, Oil and Gas barons in energy dept and a littering of Fox news hosts and his billionaire buddies and party donors.

    All of them are expected to be 100% loyal to Trump and anybody in federal govt who is seen as being critical of the administration is fired. So like you say, it just leads to a concentrated pool of incompetents, who have all of the power, with very little experience or expertise

    The Russia/Ukraine issue is a case that perfectly illustrates this. Trump blustered his now infamous line that he'd end the war on day one. When that clearly was never going to happen, his team including Witkoff and Rubio started negotiating with Putin, basically giving him the upper hand, when the world had spent the the last 3 years trying to put pressure on Russia. Add in the debacle of Trump and Vance's performance when Zelenskyy came to the white house, a further emboldened Russia, and a ceasefire that they have no intention of working with, and Trump's inexperienced team who overestimated their abilities are now threatening to simply 'walk away'

    Utterly useless, and Putin knows it.
     
    #15972
  13. brb

    brb CR250

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    See I don't read the situation in exactly the same way as you do regarding Russia and Putin. I took the threat to walk away as a message to Putin, who stands to lose more than he will gain if they do. Then not long after Putin is announcing a 30 hour ceasefire, regardless if it happened or not, over Easter.

    I think Putin is clearly playing it for what he can get, as I'm sure you believe that as well, but where does that leave Putin if Rubio does walk away, that means he's got to keep fighting, that means a risk of the rest of Europe getting involved or this alliance that Starmer wanted to create, it also risks alienating Trump.

    I'm not sure Rubio walking away helps Putin in any way shape or form, other than giving him a false dawn. Putin would have used this situation to gain advantage and has, but that also means he's made strategic manouevres, that he might not have made without that sight of a winning post at the end...only for Rubio to pull the comfort rug away.

    Not saying I'm right btw, just how I'm reading it at the mo...although like you I hate all this ****ing about.
     
    #15973
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2025
  14. FosseFilberto

    FosseFilberto Pizzeria Superiore and some ...
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    <laugh>
     
    #15974
  15. FosseFilberto

    FosseFilberto Pizzeria Superiore and some ...
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    Funnily enough I sort of agree with your second and third paragraph - with one caveat - it concerns me that all of the hospitals in Gaza have been hit and that the last 'functioning' one was the subject of recent air strikes - that leaves an uncomfortable feeling of 'planned' dismantling of medical facilities as part of a broader 'uninhabitable' aim for Gaza ...
     
    #15975
  16. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    It's neither.

    But it does demonstrate that Israel and the IDF have been lying

    The only reason they got caught out lying this time, is because phone footage was recovered. Had it not been, it would have just been dismissed as another story where the IDF claimed they were targeting Hamas operatives.

    This incident doesn't mean that you can extrapolate that everything the IDF does is an atrocity, and nobody is saying that. What it does do however is shine a light on the spurious claims that the IDF feed to the media.

    I doubt very much indeed that this was an 'isolated incident' as you frame it.
     
    #15976
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  17. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

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    We have no idea the extent to which hospitals etc. have been hit, nor their level of functionality.

    All I will observe is that the UN and Hamas Health Ministry have been using the "on the brink of total collapse" about the healthcare system for more than a year now, so it clearly isn't true.

    Similar to the "on the brink of famine" line being used for more than a year. It obviously isn't as bad as they say it is if the situation has managed to stay on the brink for that length of time.

    But I understand why that line would be used. The situation is obviously desperate and it is difficult to get information out to external allies or supporters, so messaging needs to be as bold and dramatised as possible to grab and hold attention and galvanise action.
     
    #15977
  18. Welshie

    Welshie Chavcunt fanboy dickhead

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    Putin and Zelensky might come to a peace on their own lol without US help.
     
    #15978
  19. FosseFilberto

    FosseFilberto Pizzeria Superiore and some ...
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    That phone queue Donald Dick is in is worse than trying to get a doctor's appointment on the NHS...<whistle>
     
    #15979
  20. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

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