I just think there's a disconnect between the way we think armies should operate in war, and the reality on the ground in Gaza. Rightly, on here, in society in general and indeed in international law, deliberately attacking Ambulances, medical workers, doctors, nurses, aid workers, journalists etc is seen as morally bankrupt and is a war crime. But as we've seen during this conflict, Israel are doing it time and time again, with little to no sanctions against them. They have a blanket ban on foreign media and journalists going in, (deliberately in order to try and hide the truth) so we rely on the accounts of the red crescent, map, UN etc, which then get dismissed by Israel (and CK) as spreading lies, and in Netanyahu's case he labels them as Anti-Semitic for criticising Israel's actions. The West say nothing, give them diplomatic immunity and continue to supply them with arms. In my opinion, this results in a situation where Israel see that they can do whatever the **** they like. So attacking ambulances and murdering the medics is just another ordinary day for them and if anybody asks questions, just say it was Hamas operatives. The only reason there's been such an outcry in this instance, is because they got found out. Tried to lie about it to cover it up and then got totally exposed when that phone footage emerged.
I agree. The problem is that Israel is currently led by a complete moron whose only interest is self-preservation. And he is surrounded by yes-men. This imo is where the west is misplacing its criticism. Obsessing over the minutea of individual IDF attacks is exactly what Netanyahu wants - a distraction. He needs to be the subject of every critique because ultimately Oct 7th happened under his incompetent watch and hostages remain in Gaza thanks to his bumbling idiocy.
There is an ICC arrest warrant out for him for war crimes Unfortunately, there are those who now try to diminish the ICC and thereby add fuel to Netanyahu and his claims that anything that criticises Israel as being anti-semtic. The west need to grow some balls and lob this **** in prison.
There is also a disconnect between how we think armies should operate in war, and the way armies actually operate in war. None of us really know what we are talking about and at best are only ever stabbing in the dark at what is right or wrong. That doesn't mean we aren't entitled to an opinion, but to think we know best when most of us haven't got military experience beyond clay pigeon shooting is pure hubris. This is why I think Saf and Brb were spot on about the whole Bullet-gate saga. "IDF FIRES 100 BULLETS AT AMBULANCE" jumps out at us as click-bait. A hundred bullets! We think. That's a huge amount! When in reality 100 bullets across a 20 minute engagement is very, very few. Army units typically go through 100 rounds in mere seconds if using automatic or semi automatic guns. And I'll reiterate: that doesn't mean what the IDF did to that convoy was ok..it absolutely wasn't and those responsible need to be brought to justice. But it is the latest in a long series of examples that highlights the fact that none of us know what we're talking about.
This is why I pour such scorn on these institutions. Their decrees and warrants aren't worth the paper they're printed on. The ICC has an annual budget of over £100m. Of all the warrants they issue, fewer than half go to trial and fewer than a third are actually brought to justice. Netanyahu's visit to Hungary the other week was a clear example of how little clout these institutions actually have. And that 100% isn't going to improve under the current political climate which is very much (driven by the USA) "us first". I've said from day one, the way to remove Netanyahu is to use the fact that Israel is a democracy against him. Stir up enough anti-Netanyahu sentiment such that it becomes impossible for him to wangle yet another election. I want Trump to do to Netanyahu exactly what he keeps doing to Zelensky. Come out and say "Oct 7th happened on your watch. You are a failure. You are weak." Other world leaders must do the same. This will crush what is left of his traditional support base and will hopefully lead to his removal.
I don't agree with your narrative to it. War is war, and people from both sides will use certain scenarios to their advantage. We seem to have this human concept in peacetime that everyone is honourable and obeys the rules, quite simply they don't. The IDF don't follow the rules, and I've never once on here ever attempted to suggest they do, and Hamas don't follow the rules of war either. Let's get something straight, the IDF ****ed up big time, chances are in all likelyhood they also tried to cover it up, but trying to pretend flashing lights protect you is ****ing ridiculous, it might from your cosy suburb in Hertfordshire or Cornwall but let's get ****ing real here. Something occurred before those ambulances arrived, not one of you want to mention that, simply because it could have a bearing on what followed. There was clearly some in the video without reflectives on, now knowing the dangers of their operation why was that, loads of hospitals and medics have been hit, killed, maimed whatever, so to go without reflectives on, either suggests you don't care about your own life or that of your team or think god will protect you, they won't and didn't....now I'm sounding as idiotic as you over this. Is it a war crime, most probably, but let's get all the evidence in first and stop acting as if flashing lights have some mystical power. You like everyone else on here have never been to war, you've never faced a gun in your face or a bomb explosion to disorientate you, some of the IDF like Ukranians, like Russians will be kids, kids we shoved guns into the hands of, I wonder how we would act when faced with life or death. Sorry Fosse you are so far up your own arse you haven't got a clue about war, not an iota, so go water your flowers or pour yourself a wine, because you are starting to come across as an utter muppet. That's not defending the IDF or Israel, I'm just abit more realistic about life and humanity and don't live in a world of pink candlyfloss. Maybe someone should rape and kill your daughters to see how you would react, even 2 years on, as Israel will find out for decades or a whole century to come the revenge that will be reaped on then for this appalling loss of humanity, but one thing for sure, unlike you I will not kid myself about the consequences of war or butchery and try and justify everything over a blue and red light from my little haven in the South of England.
I don't think equating the number of bullets fired in that IDF attack on the ambulances, and drawing a parallel that none of us know what is going on is war is relevant. The issue, which I know you've acknowledged, is that it was a war crime. That is the focus here, the number of rounds is a detail of that attack, along with the other grizzly details about how the IDF tried to hide the bodies and the vehicles and then obstruct the UN from accessing the site is the story.
I'm happy for you to criticise Israel and the IDF as much as you like, but it's been obvious to me and probably even before all this kicked off, what side of the fence you sat. Some of the reactions on here on the 7th Oct made me feel disgusted, it made me automatically fall on side of Israel, because it honestly felt some people on this forum were silently rejoicing within their words. I even admitted that to you all openly. I know **** all about Israel, I know **** all about Palestinians, or this hatred of Jews that I feel I often see, sadly I react to reactions and it's normally in the hey hang on a minute this don't seem fair to me. You and Fosse have done nothing but batter this drum senseless, I hear your arguments, I don't disagree with some of what you say, but I'm never going to say that, quite simply because you certainly don't need no encouragment from me. I just feel it's a shame I didn't see these same reactions on that awful day this all kicked off, but you and Fosse are two old hens who sometimes just don't know when to let go - I could understand if this was coming from Spurly, I'd button my lip, but it's not, because he's clearly wiser than all of us. But there is one thing I want to get straight and that is you do a lot of cock sucking on here...at least what I do is my own mind, not on the behalf of others...so go out to the bus shelter, have a good puff, **** off a couple of your mates, and get it out your system.
I'm used to you spouting off now You're full of **** sometimes so it's easy to let it slide Happy Easter
The ICC only have clout if the countries that sign up to their mandate back them up Netanyahu's visit to Hungary should have resulted in him being arrested, but because Victor Orban is another fascist and Trump arse licker, nothing was done. I agree with you that Netanyahu needs to be removed from within Isreali society, and as has been pointed out, the PR system has allowed him to build a coalition of right wing zionists, even when he has no majority. And yes, as I mentioned, the west needs to grow some balls and start calling him out. They should have done that when he broke the ceasefire agreement. But he knew that the west would do **** all about it, and continue to supply weapons and diplomatic immunity. As for Trump, he's backing Netanyahu's ethnic cleansing Riviera plan, so there's no hope of that useless blimp doing anything other than pouring fuel on the flames.
lol brb pretty much summed up my thoughts on this whole mess more eloquently than I could ever be bothered to do. I dont get what the draw is to this particular war, its been raging on and off for 70 years and no one gave a **** 6 months ago. There is so much injustice going on all over the world, and to drive yourself crazy over this particular war....I cant help but feel that its got less to do with wanting justice done and more to do with some kind of political pissing contest. I find the idea of whining for justice for a bunch of people who wouldnt piss on you if you were on fire rather suspect.
What I want to know were all these bodycams before when things were kicking off, seems very strange after the endless months of this conflict we are suddenly talking about bodycams. what about when Hamas were operating in hospitals, have we any bodycam footage of that... don't be ****ing silly brb, of course there won't be. After all the thousands of deaths and maiming, we suddenly want to talk about a device that satisfies one side of an argument. If only we'd had these for when Hamas Israel were launching rockets into hospitals. Anyway, as we live in this ideal war, can we ensure anyone engaged in it wears a bodycam in future, so we have evidence for everything from here on in. Obviously we'd need to check they don't explode at the trip of a switch from somewhere like outer *****lia.
If you're referring to the ambulance attack, I think it was mobile phone footage rather than bodycam I've not seen any body cam footage coming from this conflict. It seems to be something that's only used by Western nations amongst police and security outfits.
See instantly I read that, it raises another question for me. It's just how my mind works. A bodycam is something on the body, that once on is left on and operates in it's own functions. A mobile phone requires someone to hold it, someone to direct it in the area you want filmed...I'm sure you can see my question here...why? Tell yer if I'm in a war zone on a dark night, going to an incident and we don't know what we are going to meet, ****ed if I'd be picking up my phone and thinking, oh I must film this. I always wondered why the screen went blank as he got out the ambulance, as if someones hand was across the screen. See all these little things no one asks, trust nothing, question everything. It's like saying a camera never lies, lol, yes it does, all the time. Asking questions is not defence of an action, asking questions is establishing the facts about every little detail, no matter how minor. The reason I didn't ask about the hand over the camera before now was I thought it would offend people, clearly it was important to ask it, because again my understanding of the detail was incorrect.
