There has been confirmation today from all sides that the US opened talks with Hamas without consulting anyone, including Israel. This aligns with what most commentators have been saying since day one: Trump respects Netanyahu's viewpoint, but doesn't trust him one iota to make the right decisions in the right way. It seems the major sticking point multiple countries (including the UK and France) have with the Arab League's plan is that they will not accept a future where Hamas exists in any way, shape or form, including the (highly unlikely) possibility of disarming and acting as a purely political party. I personally agree with this. This is the genocidal movement that derailed Oslo, fought a civil war against its own people to seize control of Gaza in the first place, has banned elections since then, brought hell upon its people with Oct 7th, and still refuses to recognise Israel's right to exist. There is no version of reality where the world is a better place with Hamas in it.
I agree that Hamas should have anything to do with a post conflict Palestine You also have to note that there were radical zionists who derailed Oslo also, and who refuse to recognise Palestine's right to exist. It was Israel who brought hell to Gaza after Oct 7th for revenge for what Hamas had done. That said, I still agree that Hamas should have nothing to do with Palestine post conflict. I guess the problem at the moment, is that unless there is a two state solution with Palestinian autonomy, they are unfortunately the only way any Palestinian leverage is being applied.
You mean shouldn't, I'm sure. And yeah, sadly I think any chance of peace ended when Rabin was murdered by the Zionists.
There is very little comparison. Yigal Amir was a lone wolf who was mentally unstable after his girlfriend ran off with his best friend. Baruch Goldstein was a Kahanist and member of Kach but according to all accounts acted alone and without his party's knowledge. After his attack in Hebron, Kach was immediately blacklisted by Israel as a terrorist organisation and banned from running for the Kenesset. I can't recall anyone suggesting Hamas should be treated the same at any point in the first 38 years of its existence. The above 'radical zionists' have very little in common with a political/militia group formally organised five years before Oslo, which splintered from a larger group (the Muslim Brotherhood) which itself predated Oslo by 45 years, and whose attacks in the wake of Oslo were coordinated and carried out as actioning principles from its own manifesto.
Oh come on, you know as well as I do that there were extremists on both sides who were opposed to the Oslo accords and were willing to use violence to upend it. Whether that was Hamas attacks, Goldsteins terrorist attack that killed 29 Palestinians or Amir's assassination of Rabin. The far right in Israel did everything they could to derail the Oslo accords and even Ben-Givr threatened Rabin at the time. A man who is now Israel's national security minister. "The blame is shared. It started with Baruch Goldstein, that’s clear. After 40 days of Muslim mourning, there was a significant increase in suicide terrorist attacks. The violence escalated rapidly, particularly on the Palestinian side, but the one who opened the gates of hell was Baruch Goldstein. Then, of course, Rabin was assassinated". - Yossi Beilin, the architect of the Oslo accords.
Your own post undermines your point. I've dealt with Amir and Goldstein above. Both were lone wolfs and one was mentally unstable. To equate two isolated incidents with a series of attacks planned and carried out by an entire organisation is spurious. Most commentators in Israel blame Netanyahu's rise to power in 1996 on the wave of suicide bombings Hamas launched after Goldstein's attack. We haven't been able to get rid of him since. Hamas weren't retaliating for Goldstein, they were waiting to use it or anything similar as an excuse to carry out a plan they'd been plotting since 1992. Documentation and records make this abundantly clear. So it's thanks to Hamas we now have Netanyahu, and it's thanks to both that the Palestinians still don't have a state.
Yep I mean shouldn't. That time of Rabin and Arafat has gone, and unfortunately due Israel moving to the right under Netanyahu, who refuses to recognise a two state solution, it has given more fuel to Hamas who have risen as a result of continued occupation, oppression, incursions by settlers into Palestinian land and a lack of viable Palestinian alternative Governance due to the ineffectiveness of the PA and Fatah. Fast forward to Trump, whose idea is to boot the Palestinians out of Gaza, turn it into the Riviera and then hand it over to Israel, and you have another **** storm brewing that will morph into another generational war, whether Israel think they can dispose of Hamas or not. My hope is that the Arab league are allowed to manage the situation in Gaza and the West Bank, forming a Arab led Palestinian unity Govt that includes the PA and Fatah. As for Hamas, you cannot destroy them, they are an idea, a philosophy and a reaction to Israeli occupation. If Israel wants peace and security, they have to find a way for a two state solution, otherwise Hamas will simply exist under another guise. The only way to get rid of Hamas, is find an equitable solution for Palestinian statehood.
No it doesn't. The opposition to the Oslo accords was there on both sides. It was just waiting for an incendiary moment for it to spill over into violence. As Yossi Beilin outlined. It was Goldstien that 'opened the gates of hell' with his terrorist attack. And Hamas responded. As he outlines, the blame for the collapse of Oslo is shared. You can't blame Hamas for Netanyahu, he is a result of right wing Israeli Zionism, but..... his rise is also related to Hamas violence, which is in turn related to Israeli occupation, subjugation and settler incursion promoted by Netanyahu and Likud. The sooner they are both gone the better.
Sounds like some bad **** going down in Syria. Jews probably to blame but can’t be sure for now. Probably though.
@PISKIE can you please get down from Big Ben now? You're causing a scene. Get yourself back to Cornwall.
My toes are hurting and it's cold up here Can you get the cherry picker to send up some thick socks please mate
It's a new world of geopolitics when the UK, France and Germany openly back an opposing vision for Gaza than the one being proposed by the US.
****in right n all Trump's bollox politics might just actually make Europe strong enough again not to feel that is has to cede to the US all of the time.
Will he get four to five years in prison the same as "manifestly excessive" sentences handed down to the Just Stop Oil protestors for climbing gantries on the M25. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2jvmrvydro please log in to view this image
i'm convinced the magistrate / judge had been held up by one of their demos so threw the library at them
