If the US starts to side with Russia against Ukraine and Europe, Europe should temporarily close all the US military bases until relations with the US normalize. It's obvious during this administration the US is not an ally and won't help out if Russia invaded Europe. I think it would send a very powerful message to Trump and the US electorate. Trump cares very much about his legacy and being viewed as the bestest, he wouldn't want to be seen as the President who lost a dozen military bases and got kicked out of Europe. EU, with UK as ally, has three times the population of Russia and much stronger economies. It is ridiculous to rely on America for protection from a poor Eastern neighbour. Quite frankly, Europe doesn't need the US, or should be moving in that direction that they don't.
Trump can be played, by those who know how to play him. Probably best just to let him spout off and act the big shot deal maker, meanwhile what he says changes from day to day anyway. Gaza won't become a waterpark, Ukraine will have to abandon Crimea and the Donbass, but that's all. Meanwhile, yeah, Europe needs to look to itself for defence going forward. The cold war is officially over, this is a new era.
It’s probably marginally better if they don’t tbh. This is my informed but thankfully succinct analysis.
Does anyone know if this war stops tomorrow does kiers commitment of 3bn per year to Ukraine for the next 100years end?
Mentioned it yesterday, but the UK as part of the five eyes agreement along with the intel and security info we share makes us intrinsically linked. The US isn't allowed to spy on it's own citizens and likewise with the UK isn't either, but we have an agreement that the NSA shares info about the UK with us and GCHQ share info about the US with them. Along with all of the other countries that we are 'allowed' to spy on. Regarding bases, the US relies on the UK, Germany, Italy, Spain, Poland, Turkey, Cyprus, Netherlands, Bulgaria, Belgium, Romania to host US air force, marines, army etc and they need that presence in Europe in order to extend their reach into other parts of the world. They also have bases across the middle east in Arab countries which allows them to have influence and operational reach in those regions too. Trump, with his cozying up to Putin and ostracising the Arab world with his stance on Gaza, risks isolating the US from key allies in Europe and the middle east. What he sees as a quick fix to rid the US of their involvement in 'foreign wars' actually risks inflaming the situation and driving a wedge between the US and Europe and the middle east. He's a ****in idiot and you'd hope that people like Rubio, Witkoff and his special envoys will rein him in and remind him of the shared nature of security and defence around the world, But Trump is a law unto himself and as we've seen, even his bluster and guff has real world consequences.
That's the rub though innit bro. If the 'war ends' on Trump and Putin's terms, then it makes Ukraine and the rest if Europe more vulnerable. So no, we'll probs end up spending even more. And Sir Keir has got you lined up for a tour of east Ukraine
Sorry guyz, been away for a bit. Looks like I missed an absolute classic war thread collective meltdown. Apologies for my absence. Bravo all round though.
In other news... @PISKIE as much as it might hurt you to admit it, this is an example of democracy and a free judiciary working precisely as they were meant to. And, I note, the prosecution pushed for this indictment despite unbelievable pressure from Netanyahu's right-wing lapdogs. More indictments are expected to follow as cases are pushed up the court agenda. Accountability and transparency, as much as Netanyahu is trying to destroy them, still exist in a number of good, upstanding pockets of Israeli society. They must be the builders of the future.
True, but the problem at the moment is that he's being played by Putin He's believing all sorts of nonsense that's coming out of Russia, because they know how to milk him. They actively sought to get him elected in 2016 because they did their homework on him, knowing he would be easily manipulated. Trump sought out their interference in the election to get himself into power and now this unholy alliance is being played out, with Trump giving them exactly what they want. The bloke is a crook and he makes friends and does deals with crooks. I guess we shouldn't be surprised really.
It doesn't hurt me mate, I'm glad to see that these scum bags are being brought to task I doubt we'll ever see all of the atrocities carried out by the IDF come to light, but this is welcome at least.
Zelenskky really shouldn't be getting into this war of words with Trump/America, all rationale has gone out the window, and you can be sure the Trump haters will revel in stirring it up even more, to the benefit of no one. The other day I thought someone had put Zelenskyy up to the speech he made about an Army of Europe - I'd like to think this war of words along with the Army of Europe speech is being played out to reel Putin in, but I really don't think either man, Zelenskyy or Trump are clever enough. Ignoring the inflated Trump figures, Zelnskyy has probably had $70B out of Biden and the Americans, so about the size of Keir's supposed Tory blackhole. None of us can afford it, we allowed our armies over the decades to depreciate right across Europe, and it will mean more cuts in the UK we can ill-afford. I don't want to get into this war, I'll never being fighting on any frontline and never have done, so why would I want to send young men to their death! Like most people on here if not all, will never have to in their lifetime. This war has already killed and injured around a million people and most of them will be young men, and flattened cities. All because Ukranians don't want the Russians, despite having lived alongside one another (before 1991) for absolute decades. I can't agree with this war, I will never agree with this war, even if I understand the reasons behind it and before anyone does agree with it, go and stand on the frontline and fight yourself, we are all brave warriors behind keyboards. Time for Zelenskyy to step down, so we can get some rationale back at the table....be good to think this could all be part of a clever ploy though.
