The bigger problem is the precedent being set - invade a foreign country / sovereign state... and in the eventual truce the world will turn a blind eye and let you keep your ill gotten gains ... unless you are Iraq, of course ... in which case we'll all be outraged and send in a multi national force ....
I reckon Putin has absolutely got some dirt on Trump. Remember this is a bloke who slept with porn stars, was friends with Epstein and encouraged Russia to meddle in US elections. He’ll know how thin skinned Trump is and how to massage his ego. Putin’s puppet.
This ^^^ It's all very well saying let's end the bloodshed after the atrocities have been committed and the aggressor has got what they want. We need a world where the international rule of law is adhered to, but ceding to Putin gives the green light to 'have a go' invasions and emboldens these people to take more. Xi Ping will be looking at this with regard to Taiwan and of course we know Trump wants Greenland. Same with Gaza, 'let's move everybody out so that they don't have to suffer the death and destruction' whilst conveniently forgetting who it was that caused that death and destruction in the first place. Oh and after we've built our Riviera complex, we'll hand it over to the people who flattened it and slaughtered tens of thousands of it's inhabitants. It's dressed up as being a humanitarian effort when land is being divi'd out, but little regard for these people when the bombs are being dropped.
The question is what is the alternative? We've been stuck in a frankly farcical situation for year where western powers have been supplying Ukraine with just enough aid and weaponry to stay in the ring, but never enough to actually do anything decisive. Meanwhile we continue to buy gas and resources from Russia which no doubt helps fund their own war effort. We've created and absurd vicious cycle that has no real end to it.
Money, oil and land mean more than human life and if you're unfortunate enough to live in one of these areas that psychopath leaders vie over, then God help you.
I'm with Zelensky on this one. **** this leader talk, it's the Russian PEOPLE who are blind followers of this stuff. He said try and speak to them, see how they respond, they're completely closed off in their bubbles n only grumble when it's them who are affected
When you look at their history over the last 500 years it's hard to blame them tbh, Russia's leaders have never shied away when it comes to killing their own populace.
This idea that Russia needs to be taught a lesson by the west is bollocks frankly, and needs to be dropped. That’ll be the west that invaded Afghanistan and Iraq; where were the sanctions against America then? Russia wants out of this war, so does Ukraine. Get it done
Agreed. It needs to end. In this case I think it’s going to be at the cost of Ukraine, but that’s what has been allowed to happen And the west are equally as culpable and have no moral compass on any of this ****.
No; I agree mate it needs to end. That will likely be at Ukraine’s expense now, and you can argue about what should or shouldn’t have happened in the past. But it needs to end.
That's squarely down to Putin, as it always was ... but he wouldn't even be talking now if it was going swimmingly and he was anywhere near to what he originally intended ... but he's not, and the enormous cost of Russian life is unsustainable (and the Koreans won't be lending him any more 'elite' units) - so he's now looking for any way out that he can spin in Russia as a glorious victory for the 'special operation' ...
Yeah, I agree. Most of the people in occupied areas want to be Russian anyway. This one is a lot easier for me knowing that. Needs to be a peace deal that somehow protects Ukraine from further attacks. It won’t be NATO, Trump has made it clear that they won’t be accepted.
So you back keep fighting and more bloodshed, if it stops Putin annexing the occupied areas? I’m just trying to gauge what you think, not Putin.
I think that the Ukrainians are no angels and that there were areas of the country that were more 'Russian' as the carve up of the old USSR wasn't perfect and some Russian speakers were getting it rough ... so the best solution would be some give on both sides now - I.e areas that were predominantly Russian should be given the opportunity to stay Russian - but Russia also needs to concede and pull back from areas that weren't - that would be a common sense approach - but where nationalism and egos exist, common sense is often rare ... ... but there is a ray of light - but only because Putin is now aware that the costs (in Russian lives) of carrying on may (eventually) undermine him back home ...
I think if Ukraine gives up territory to Russia, Russia has to agree to not impede them joining the EU (eventually) and/or NATO. The danger is, 3 years from now, Russia makes up a new excuse, invades Ukraine again to get the bits of land they didn't get the first or second time (remember they already carved off Crimea). Ukraine needs something concrete to prevent Russia coming back for another chunk. Think it's naive to say Ukraine won't lose territory from this, or they should expect to not lose territory... what they need to achieve is something to prevent a third invasion by Russia. Anything less than Ukraine joining EU or NATO and we could be right back at it again before too long.
We've never had any intention of doing anything about these problems. It's money that causes the issues and the EU and NATO are just as bad, poke, poke, poke with stick...Ulkraine supplies grain, so we need them, and NATO has interests also regarding military borders. Although we will not spend **** all on our own defences, in fact we undermine our military. Poland being the only country that makes anywhere near the 5% contribution, someone that learned the lessons of the past. Ah yeah but Ukraine's freedoms we care about them, bolloxs do we. What is it now a Million people dead, humans treated like excrement waste - no one cares, no one protests to put an end to this madness, and we'll hide behind the excuse it's all Putin's fault, so we must continue this massacre, ****ed up human logic. Got no money to support kids who suffer at the consequences of war, aside from charity donations, but loads to chuck on weaponary when it comes to fighting for people we pretend to care about. Some woman on tv earlier saying we must continue this war - well go put a ****ing uniform on then and stand on the front line, let me know how that works out for you.
Im not going to lie, i would probably be running off. But i thought you would understand it. I know you are a patriot at heart (we do have a lot of british history and honour for our army brethren) but i know you would have no hesitation to sign up and defend the uk if it ever got invaded. Likewise i would imagine you would want to stay and rebuild the country post war even if it was dangerous.
I guess they are hoping it doesnt breakout into war again? Its a tough decision though, imagine going to your own home and it being rubble or being a refugee in some camp in Lebanon or egypt. Never been to those countries but i cant imagine the local quality of life is decent, let alone if you were a refugee with no home or local connections or job. Now if you offered them asylum status in the uk i bet they would snap it up... Not sure that is what is on offer.
