To be honest, after the second statement backing Ange, it's likely that Munn was already instructed to draw up a longlist The main question is whether we're considering La Liga or Bundesliga meta
I don’t know what to think anymore. This surely can’t go on. It’s the hardest it’s ever been to be a spurs fan with anyone and everyone sticking the boot in when they can. He has to be sacked as I’m fed up of feeling like this every weekend but the way he speaks doesn’t sound like dead man walking and he actually makes you feel sorry for him. I still think levy might stick with him because the only other option till the end of the season is Ryan mason.
We sacked a bloke right before an fa cup semi final against his former team to bring in a known terrible man manager cos he was a spurs man. He was sacked less than 2 months into his 3rd season. We then took 9 months to appt a new manager (meaning we had a caretaker manager for 6 month) who lasted 3 months after giving us turgid football and couldn't be ****ed to say something about Bill Nics death. We lucked out and appointed a man already at the club who took us from nowhere to regular European football via the league ... (the first manager to do so since the 1980s) then sacked him in the most disgusting way. We then brought in our only manager to win a trophy under Enic and sacked him 6 months later. We appointed a great choice and sacked him after he got us to finish 4th, 5th and 4th. He was replaced by a manager who had been sacked by Chelsea. Within 3 months of his sacking Chelsea won the FA Cup and CL with a caretaker manager. He was sacked after 18 months of pretty turgid football bar Bales performances. Another 6 month caretaker followed. The we had our best appointment who took us to 5th, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd and 4th ... we decided to sack him 4 months after he got us to a CL final. He was followed by a man who clearly failed at United and produced some ****ing awful football there...that united fans wanted him gone says it all. We then got turned down by countless managers until someone decided they have a go. He lasted 4 months before being replaced by a guy who has a track record of doing well in the first season then exploding in his second, so it was no surprise that this happened which brings us to now. There is no way I believe Levy and Co to choose an appropriate manager. Only Jol, Redknapp and Pochettino took us forward. Yes, Ramos won a trophy but never took us forward league wise. Hoddle, pleat, santini, ramos, Avb, gillet boy, JM, Nuno, Conte and (so far) Ange have been car crash appointments. Who the **** will wanna take us on anyway? Until Levy stays out of footballing decisions this **** show will continue so changing managers is like moving deckchairs on the titanic
I’ve finally changed my vote. Been thinking it for as long as anyone else on here, but still feel strongly about changing the manager AGAIN after 18 months. Losing games by 1 goal with respectable performances in light of the injuries, I can accept. But it’s got to the point now where it’s at the “you don’t know what you’re doing” chant levels. The on field displays have got progressively and consistently worse, and I don’t see things improving even when players return. We’re just not set up where we can see signs on the pitch that the right personnel will make things better. The players are dejected and I don’t think they’re playing for him. The team/squad is better than the performances/results we’re seeing, and it doesn’t appear there’s light at the end of the tunnel, IMO. The first 10 games of Ange’s tenure were very exciting, but the reality is that his style of play was new to the PL, and we simply got found out very quickly. I was hoping we’d be able to emulate this and perhaps adjust slightly to continue this exciting initial style we saw, but with a bit more stability. We’re miles off of it and are completely out of sorts. we genuinely have the players to do well in the Europa, but it’s going to take a “new manager bounce” for us to sort ourselves out, IMO. If we carry on like this, we’ll be out of the Europa in no time, and the gap at the bottom of the PL will close. Time for change, starting with Ange. over to Levy. - Which are words that now fill me with dread, but it can’t get much worse. but honestly, what was he thinking taking a risk on someone with no experience, especially after the disappointments of Mourinho, Nuno and Conte? Crazy crazy appointment when you look back. And made worse by knowing there was a conversation with Slot, who ended up at Liverpool, and looks like he’s gonna win the league with them. What a time to be alive.
Anyone who hasn't come to this conclusion is hiding from a very painful, but very obvious truth. Putting aside the issues of the priority of development over sporting success and money, the appointment of coaches indicates a failure to learn anything from previous mistakes. Some of the appointments have been so wrong that it beggars belief. That's not from the benefit of hindsight. They were wrong ab initio and completely avoidable. I no longer care whether Ange stays or goes. If Levy's at the club, we'll be back here in 18 months having the same conversations, having pissed away more money on compo and the wrong players. He has to go.
I was open to Ange's appointment as I would be to almost any managerial appointment we've made. For me, Jose and Conte were more obvious mistakes as we all knew from day one that they wouldn't get the backing they need and their combustible personalities would very quickly explode at a 'nice' little club like Spurs. At the time of Ange's appointment, I looked back at BMJ and how we plucked him from relative obscurity and inexperience, and yet he goes down as one of the most important managers in our history. I was optimistic Ange would be the same, but it hasn't worked out. I think fundamentally the difference between him and BMJ is that the latter hadn't won anything apart from the Dutch equivalent of the Carabao cup once. He had loads to prove and therefore had the hunger and more importantly the humility to listen and learn. Ange by contrast has won loads, albeit all of it at clubs that quite frankly sound like Nickelodeon channels. This has warped his view of reality. He clearly holds himself as a "successful" coach and as I've pointed out many times, a lot of what he says and the way he says it sounds a lot like someone like Jose or Conte. The fatal error is in his thinking that winning the double with Brisbane Roar is a transferable skill to the toughest league in the world. If he'd approached the job with the openness and humility it needed, he may well have succeeded. But his stubbornness has been his undoing. Comfortably the worst manager we've had since Gross, and I include Tim Sherwood in that statement.
There is also the strong sense that we as THFC have fulfilled our purpose for ENIC/Levy. Our name has been used to expand the ENIC empire into this behemoth we see. We are not the jewel in the crown but just another entertainment facility being used to line their pockets. It’s not about building the best football team, it’s about maintaining one of many sources of income for them. The proof is in what we the fans have been witnessing slowly but surely for the last 6 years. They don’t need us…in fact we are probably a hinderance due to them having to buy players season on season. paying big fees shows the blind that Levy is doing all he can…the wage’s however reflect the scam us fans can see right through.
You could produce a similar story for most PL clubs, this is not peculiar to Spurs. Pressure from the media and fans continually causes the sacking of managers. Once in a while clubs come across someone who with a combination of factors has success but in the grand scheme most fail, mostly because in the modern game they are not given time. A game designed to produce excitement and uncertainty is always going to make managing it a smoke and mirrors job. Everyone thinks they are an expert, all think they know better than the manager except on those few occasions when things click into place. The latest mantra is that we don't pay the players enough but then when we have a poor game the players are earning thousands a week and not trying. As far as I am concerned I watch football for entertainment and a distraction from other aspects of life. I don't use it as an alter ego that requires my team to win to fulfil some missing gap in my life. If you watch a game of football it has little meaning unless you want one of the teams to win therefore I picked a team and then stuck with it, otherwise what's the point. It's a game, half an hour after a loss it no longer matters. It's good to have targets like winning cups and leagues but they are a bonus to enjoying football and watching highly skilled players move the ball around the pitch. Perhaps the most important skill a football mangers needs is understanding the diversity of humans and motivating them, if you have that the rest can be sorted. Tactics , methods, training, are all usually produced by a team in big clubs. The manager oversees and guides the process, but it is a process not some amazing wizardorial skill that only the few posses.
And there is a valid reason for this: Arnesen wouldn't be arriving until the summer of 2004, so any managerial appointment after Hoddle got sacked was only ever going to be a caretaker because hiring a manager and then appointing a DoF is the equivalent of putting the engine in the passenger seat
It's amazing how everyone is over-reacting. We've got the sixth strongest squad but it is over-run by injuries and I doubt our starting XI is much better than the tenth best currently. Despite that we got to the League Cup semi-final where we beat the current best team in the country in the first leg. We narrowly lost an away cup tie to Villa who are probably the 7th best squad so it was always less than 50% chance of a win. We also comfortably qualified for the Europa last 16 which has always been our best chance of a trophy this season. Looking at our league form we've lost 13 games, 12 of them by a single goal. If we had had fewer injuries we would likely have turned at least some of the losses and draws into wins. Despite all this, Ange has a better record than most of our managers. So it seems to me that there is little evidence that anything is even wrong, never mind badly enough wrong to warrant calling for sackings. As for the Levy knows nothing about football line, the data clearly shows that our footballing performance exactly matches our standing in the wealth stakes. And in both the cases of manager or Levy out it is absurd to want that without knowing who the alternative is.
Sorry PS, but while factually 'accurate' that is an assessment that is somewhat delusional. Our LC run of three 4 ties came within 2 minutes of falling at the first hurdle, only salvaged by the player who the coach had effectively - and ironically - sent to Coventry. Yes, we had a good result in that first leg of the SF - but that was totally eclipsed by the ineptitude of last Thursdays performance. And the loss yesterday really wasn't 'close', at least not to any non-partisan watcher. It may not seem like this sometimes I know, but I really want to find any positives in the current 1st team situation and to some degree I do see that in the likes of two 18 year olds Gray and Bergvall who have had to take on a ridiculous amount of responsibility, plus the emergence of Spence - all of whom I would exclude from any criticism. Unfortunately, there are other basic problems and inconsistencies that cannot be solely or even largely blamed on injuries.
2 seasons ago, we finished 8th. Last season, we were 5th. If you take away the new manager bounce, we'd have been mid-table. We're currently 14th. You can run from that, but it can't be hidden from. We've been overtaken by smaller clubs with more financial daring and more doing of smart management. The fact that Daniel Levy's methods used to work isn't helping us...and isn't going to. They don't work anymore and if we continue with his management, we're going to end up getting relegated, if not this season, then soon. For God's sake GO!
Not sure if I’m reading too much into it but the radio silence from club channels after the loss makes me wonder if a sacking is imminent. Usually the manager and a player or two would give the typical “yeah disappointed, all we can do is work hard to improve” post match drivel with Milesy but “We exit the FA Cup” is the last thing Spurs have tweeted. No interviews of any kind. There were also very ****ty sources claiming he’d be sacked if we lost but tbh any one of us could tweet as such, it’d hardly be a surprise and you could then look “ITK”. Again, could be reading too much into it but…
I don't mind us getting thrashed by a team as good as Liverpool, or losing away to a team as strong as Villa, as long as I see that we are at the very least getting the basics right. The stuff every ten year old learns. Tracking runners, covering the flanks, not breaking your shape to chase the ball around the park. We play without any semblance of a plan. It all looks made up as we go along. So do the team selections and substitutes. You focus entirely on data. You've always done that. Because of this, when many of us were predicting exactly what we are seeing now back in 2019, you stood your ground and disagreed, as you are entitled to. I personally don't just look at data and take comfort by the fact that we 'only' lost by a single goal. I watch the actual football in front of my eyes and time and time again, I see a team that should have lost by a much greater margin, but through sheer negligence on the part of the opposition or individual brilliance of some of our players, we have salvaged a more respectable scoreline. Last night is the perfect example. I don't think any spurs fan would've complained if we'd lost 4-0. Then one exquisite cross from our poty and a tidy finish from a new signing glossed over that fact and on paper, suddenly things don't look quite so bad. Same thing happened against Ipswich and Everton. When you watch the actual football being played in front of you, it is very difficult to draw a conclusion that things are likely to get better.
Considering members of the Lunatic Fringe were spewing drivel over the clubs socials putting out posts for Holocaust Memorial Day a few weeks ago, the social media team probably all mysteriously came down with the flu this morning :::EDIT::: So there's videos with Ange and Tel on the club's Facebook page, but for whatever reason those haven't been posted to the club's Twitter or Instagram
I don't disagree with the analysis but think the reason is more to do with tired squad players underperforming rather than more fundamental issues. I think this team, if fit, could be really good especially if two top players could be added Vicario Spence, Romero, VdV, Udogie Gray, Sarr, Bergvall Kulusevski, Solanke, Tel Six of those were not available for the bad run and the other 5 have been out of position or overplayed, as has Son.
I personally am not particularly upset about not winning trophies (although it would be good to do so once in awhile). I really enjoyed some great memories under Jol, Redknapp and Pochettino. However I disagree about most clubs are like ours re choosing managers. I get it can be a bit hit and miss but we make very predictable car crash choices. Hoddle was renowned for being an awful man manager who could not connect with his players. There were plenty of stories demonstrating this from his time with Swindon, Chelsea and England. Having pleat as a 8 month long caretaker was plain lunacy. The treatment of Jol was despicable from the summer (our 2nd 5th place finish on the bounce) until he was sacked in October. AVB was a predictable car crash as was having nice but dim as a caretaker manager for 7 months (no lessons learned from the pleat debacle. No idea how to express how predictably wrong JM, nuno (8th or 9th choice) or Conte were. That's why IMHO Levy needs to either remove himself or be removed from the footballing matters
Newcastle, West Ham, Man United, Everton, Sunderland, Villa, Wolves, all big clubs with proud histories, have found themselves in even worst positions than we are even now having had succesions of managers. It's par for the course, a few minutes research will show the case. Everton, Villa, Newcastle in particular are clubs on a very similar level to Spurs over the course of history and all have been worse off than us during the ENIC years. Of course the Spurs one matter to us more but to claim that we are worse is just not true. As fans we are always in the hands of the owners and we have no way of knowing who might take over from Levy if and when he goes. Again look at Newcastle and Man United in particular having had far worse owners and successions of managers. The Glazers have just used United to enrich themselves further and before the current murderers who own Newcastle they had the caring sharing Ashley. We are also very close to the significant mark of 14 American owners and once that happens they will have carte blanche to turn the PL into a self contained money machine and destroy the English football pyramid. We are no position to influence these events so before you call for the replacement of Spurs owners, just consider the possibilities from which there will be no going back. Levy has employed a succesion of football directors clearly recognising the need for footballing expertise and at present we have Johan Lange in the middle of such a project, which fans want demolished. Every time we knock down management we start again, and that's the real problem at Spurs. The ONLY way to progress is stability of management and that means at least 3 seasons minimum. The ONLY periods of real success in Spurs history all had managers who lasted longer than 3 season. Many of the fans on here have lived through all this and yet they still call for the heads to roll as soon as we hit troubled waters. It doesent work, unless you are really lucky, in a club aspiring to be in European places, Chelsea excepted, who break all the rules both on and off the pitch and enjoy success as well, but as they say it is the exception that proves the rule.
