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Off Topic Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by ChilcoSaint, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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    I watched a short YouTube video about an American man in Florida.
    He voted for Trump and is now trying to appeal to the “great man” to have his wife returned from Venezuela, having been deported as a result of Trump’s purge on immigrants.
    She had been living with her husband for a couple of years and was a long way down the road towards becoming a citizen, including having a court date to finalise the deal.
    In another story, 2 women and a child (grandmother, daughter, granddaughter) were arrested by one of the security forces (they didn’t identify their force to the women) because they were heard speaking Spanish.
    They are residents in the states and come from Puerto Rico, a US territory so have every right to be there. They were held until they could prove their status and not even given a lift home.
    So, looking good.
     
    #50921
    shoot_spiderman and ChilcoSaint like this.
  2. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint What a disgrace Forum Moderator

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    Yeah, but he’s turned the water on, right?
     
    #50922
    thereisonlyoneno7 likes this.
  3. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

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    #50923
  4. Ian Thumwood

    Ian Thumwood Well-Known Member

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    I was shocked by this comment and found it incredible that Trump lacked so much empathy for the victims. Should never have used the accident for political purposes regardless of his accusation being totally spurious. Does he actually believe the sh/te he spouts ?
     
    #50924
  5. saintrichie123

    saintrichie123 Well-Known Member

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    Trump being ….,,,well Trump, but people still love him and will ignore any negativity about him…………..shame really.
     
    #50925
    StJabbo1 and MIsaints like this.
  6. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

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    Symptomatic of the spaffometrics of tory immigration policy.
    "Eighteen months after it arrived at Portland Port in Dorset, the empty asylum seeker barge Bibby Stockholm has been towed away from its mooring.

    The barge, which only ever provided accommodation for about 400 single male asylum seekers a night at maximum occupancy, has cost the taxpayer at least £34.8m, according to the National Audit Office."

    A modern day prison hulk.
     
    #50926
    shoot_spiderman likes this.

  7. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    Perhaps it could be the next Royal Yacht?
     
    #50927
  8. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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  9. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to send you a letter from America.
    please log in to view this image
     
    #50929
  10. Gregm1988

    Gregm1988 Well-Known Member

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    I’m listening to Trump live right now and my god. The guy really doesn’t understand anything about anything relevant to his job. He doesn’t understand the economy, global trade, geopolitics, force projection, the concept of a defensive alliance and how that benefits the US as well as everyone else. He doesn’t understand anything

    His entire view is insular and selfish

    To listen to him rambling about how tariffs are misunderstood word (only by him really) and one of the most beautiful words in the dictionary. And people don’t think he’s cognitively impaired ?

    It takes a true cultist to watch him and listen to what he says and not be truly alarmed at how clueless he is about everything

    But that’s the big trick. Despite what many say otherwise the media having been cutting what he says so that most people don’t actually see the full extent of his clueless rambling babbling. And now they are more on his side than ever. Because all the money has swung decisively behind him

    and the whinging. The constant non stop moaning and playing the victim. And his followers actually criticise his political opponents and people who don’t like him as being the kind to always play the victim. Truly wild
     
    #50930
  11. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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    I read something, yesterday, about China ditching their soybean trade with America, because of tariffs being mooted/applied, and they are now going to buy them from Russia.
    So not only has Trump harmed the soybean industry in his country, he has improved the economy of Russia, making them stronger and more able to deal with sanctions.
    Not to mention making their links with China stronger.
    Genius at work.
     
    #50931
  12. shoot_spiderman

    shoot_spiderman Power to the People

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    One for Chilcs in Wells …

    “It is one of the least appreciated substances on the planet and its misuse is now threatening to unleash environmental mayhem. Phosphorus is a key component of fertilisers that have become vital in providing food for the world. But at the same time, the spread of these phosphorus compounds – known as phosphates – into rivers, lakes and streams is spreading algal blooms that are killing fish stocks and marine life on a huge scale“

    “It is a striking mismatch that is now being tackled by a project of remarkable simplicity. The company Rookwood Operations, based in Wells, Somerset, has launched a product that enables phosphates to be extracted from problem areas and then reused on farmland”

    “This week one of the company’s founders, Jane Pearce, will be awarded a £75,000 Innovate UK Women in Innovation Award for her role in setting up the project. “Our product has a straightforward goal – to transfer phosphates from rivers and lakes where they are causing real damage and move them in a simple manner to farmland, where they can be of use in growing crops”
     
    #50932
  13. All_Southampton_FC

    All_Southampton_FC Well-Known Member

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  14. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    Currently wondering at what point someone throws a tarpaulin over Trump and drags him off to the funny farm.
     
    #50934
    Saints_Alive and garysfc like this.
  15. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint What a disgrace Forum Moderator

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    Saw this on FB and thought it made some very food points:


    The best, most cogent and elegantly simple explanation into the inexplicably destructive negotiating processes of the president,by Prof. David Honig of Indiana University.

    Everybody I know should read this accurate and enlightening piece...

    “I’m going to get a little wonky and write about Donald Trump and negotiations. For those who don't know, I'm an adjunct professor at Indiana University - Robert H. McKinney School of Law and I teach negotiations. Okay, here goes.

    Trump, as most of us know, is the credited author of "The Art of the Deal," a book that was actually ghost written by a man named Tony Schwartz, who was given access to Trump and wrote based upon his observations. If you've read The Art of the Deal, or if you've followed Trump lately, you'll know, even if you didn't know the label, that he sees all dealmaking as what we call "distributive bargaining."

    Distributive bargaining always has a winner and a loser. It happens when there is a fixed quantity of something and two sides are fighting over how it gets distributed. Think of it as a pie and you're fighting over who gets how many pieces. In Trump's world, the bargaining was for a building, or for construction work, or subcontractors. He perceives a successful bargain as one in which there is a winner and a loser, so if he pays less than the seller wants, he wins. The more he saves the more he wins.

    The other type of bargaining is called integrative bargaining. In integrative bargaining the two sides don't have a complete conflict of interest, and it is possible to reach mutually beneficial agreements. Think of it, not a single pie to be divided by two hungry people, but as a baker and a caterer negotiating over how many pies will be baked at what prices, and the nature of their ongoing relationship after this one gig is over.

    The problem with Trump is that he sees only distributive bargaining in an international world that requires integrative bargaining. He can raise tariffs, but so can other countries. He can't demand they not respond. There is no defined end to the negotiation and there is no simple winner and loser. There are always more pies to be baked. Further, negotiations aren't binary. China's choices aren't (a) buy soybeans from US farmers, or (b) don't buy soybeans. They can also (c) buy soybeans from Russia, or Argentina, or Brazil, or Canada, etc. That completely strips the distributive bargainer of his power to win or lose, to control the negotiation.

    One of the risks of distributive bargaining is bad will. In a one-time distributive bargain, e.g. negotiating with the cabinet maker in your casino about whether you're going to pay his whole bill or demand a discount, you don't have to worry about your ongoing credibility or the next deal. If you do that to the cabinet maker, you can bet he won't agree to do the cabinets in your next casino, and you're going to have to find another cabinet maker.

    There isn't another Canada.

    So when you approach international negotiation, in a world as complex as ours, with integrated economies and multiple buyers and sellers, you simply must approach them through integrative bargaining. If you attempt distributive bargaining, success is impossible. And we see that already.

    Trump has raised tariffs on China. China responded, in addition to raising tariffs on US goods, by dropping all its soybean orders from the US and buying them from Russia. The effect is not only to cause tremendous harm to US farmers, but also to increase Russian revenue, making Russia less susceptible to sanctions and boycotts, increasing its economic and political power in the world, and reducing ours. Trump saw steel and aluminum and thought it would be an easy win, BECAUSE HE SAW ONLY STEEL AND ALUMINUM - HE SEES EVERY NEGOTIATION AS DISTRIBUTIVE. China saw it as integrative, and integrated Russia and its soybean purchase orders into a far more complex negotiation ecosystem.

    Trump has the same weakness politically. For every winner there must be a loser. And that's just not how politics works, not over the long run.

    For people who study negotiations, this is incredibly basic stuff, negotiations 101, definitions you learn before you even start talking about styles and tactics. And here's another huge problem for us.

    Trump is utterly convinced that his experience in a closely held real estate company has prepared him to run a nation, and therefore he rejects the advice of people who spent entire careers studying the nuances of international negotiations and diplomacy. But the leaders on the other side of the table have not eschewed expertise, they have embraced it. And that means they look at Trump and, given his very limited tool chest and his blindly distributive understanding of negotiation, they know exactly what he is going to do and exactly how to respond to it.

    From a professional negotiation point of view, Trump isn't even bringing checkers to a chess match. He's bringing a quarter that he insists of flipping for heads or tails, while everybody else is studying the chess board to decide whether its better to open with Najdorf or Grünfeld.”

    — David Honig
     
    #50935
  16. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    Yes, but extending that chess analogy, isn't he the pigeon who knocks over the pieces before ****ting all over the board and declaring victory? So knowing he's an idiot capable of anything, doesn't make him any easier to deal with, it just turns al negotiation into farce.
     
    #50936
  17. Shandy_top_89

    Shandy_top_89 Well-Known Member

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    At current rate I am doubting he sees the end of these four years.

    I don’t mean that as an endorsement of violence, but factually he is going to severely piss off a lot of people, many of whom will be armed, some very skilled and as he is ****ing around with the Secret Service who provide his protection, he could well degrade his own security detail. Also although he represents the ‘tech bro’ oligarchy, there are a lot of very powerful corporate interests that stand to lose out due to Trumps behaviour, including with the US military-industrial complex.

    Musk is another one who must be severely risking his personal safety on his current trajectory.

    US citizens are not as easy (and safe) to control as Russians are and the wannabe oligarchs are playing a very dangerous game imo.

    And unlike Putin the US leaders seem to have a level of hubris that blinds them to risks, Putin definitely has hubris, but comes across as being very aware of his own safety, possibly to the point of paranoia.
     
    #50937
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2025
  18. tomw24

    tomw24 Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    Daniel Khalife sentenced to 14 years in prison for breaching the Official Secrets Act, The Terrorism Act and escaping from prison. That seems very lenient to me.
     
    #50938
  19. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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    On the topic of tariffs, I have enjoyed watching a couple of YouTube videos in which MAGA supporters are schooled in who actually pays the tariffs.
    The look of disbelief turning to realisation, as the owners of import businesses explain that it is the importer who pays the tariffs and the consumer who pays more for the goods, as a result of the tariffs, is quite something to behold.
     
    #50939
  20. Ian Thumwood

    Ian Thumwood Well-Known Member

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    I think that is unduly harsh. It is not as if Iranian assassins are around each corner trying to bump off SAS operatives who themselves are far more thoroughly wrapped up in war crimes. He was an idiot but the fact he put our military in harm is overstated.

    He deserves a prison sentence but I feel this just makes us seem as bad as Putin's Russia.
     
    #50940

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