Ayala

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holt>god

holt>god

Member
Jan 30, 2011
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Is anyone else excited to see him play? Nobody made that big a deal when he signed, but Liverpool fans seemed to rate him. Lots of fans are calling for a cb to be bought in January but I think our two best centre backs (in theory), Whitbread and Ayala are just returning from injury. Maybe these two will get us our first clean sheets?
 
Something needs to be done, our defensive record is atrocious you can stick up for them as much as you like but we've failed to keep a clean sheet, we look shaky I know yesterday we were playing against about 2nd best domestic team in the world, we've conceded a total of 12 goals in the last 4 games.

We need to mix things up a bit I'm sure when Whitbread returns we'll look defensively better.
 
Yesterday was the first time we have conceded more than three goals. This was against the best team in the country.

Barnett and R Martin have made mistakes but apart from those mistakes they have been brilliant. Think of all the possible goals they prevented.
 
ncfcwonky said:
Yesterday was the first time we have conceded more than three goals. This was against the best team in the country.

Barnett and R Martin have made mistakes but apart from those mistakes they have been brilliant. Think of all the possible goals they prevented.
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Man City bossed the midfield yesterday and we were playing very deep so the defence would be under pressure that was obvious, but we're not dealing with it soaking the pressure up, some of the defending on those goals yesterday were laughable baring in mind we were playing against some super talented players some could of been prevented. Barnett and Martin have been alright don't get me wrong I thought Barnett was excellent last season but I'm not very confident when the ball is at his feet in this league, his distribution lets him down.
 
We've been incredibly unlucky having Ward, De Laet, Ayala and Whitbread all injured at the same time. I know this is no excuse for not keeping a clean sheet in 14 games (15 if we include the league cup fiasco) but the point is we need to be realistic. I think some people have forgotten that we have now played 10 of our 14 league games this season with our first choice right back as one of our centre backs.
 
I am sure Lambert is aware of what we need to do to improve the defence and if we can improve I am sure we will stand a great chance of staying up. Scoring doesn't seem to be too much of a problem. If you look at the table, we have actually scored more goals than Newcastle! Sort the defence out and we will be a decent outfit.
 
Send De Laet back he`s useless, i have been impressed with Barnett and Martin and to say Whitbread and Ayala would have been first choice is crazy
 
Lambert has said he's not looking for anymore centre backs. Don't think we do with R Martin, Barnett, Whitbred, De Laet and Ayala.

Thought De Laet looked alright at right back. Naughton hasn't seemed at his best recently but he plays well with Bennett. But I would stick with Naughton at right back, let him get his confidence back.

Ayala needs a couple of games then I think he will be alright.
 
For me at this level we need the most confident and ball playing centre back pairing. Whitbread looks the most confident of our centre backs, he can move the ball well and seems comfortable with the ball at his feet. Then we have look at the physical side of the game as some these forwards are quick and athletical this where Barnett is handy but he cannot pass.

It's a difficult choice for Lambert but personally I would go for the more confident centre backs players which keep it tidy. Taking into account some of the goals yesterday were down to poor decisions on Ruddys behalf, take the Nasri goal for an example perhaps we need to work on communication between the defenders and the goalkeeper.
 
It's not the first time that sort of thing has happened. Look at what happened in the closing minutes against Liverpool and the Samba goal against Blackburn.
 
Both Whitbread and Ayala were on the books at Liverpool so must be half decent! A lot of Liverpool fans i have spoken to have been surprised at Ayala's lack of games. I do think Whitbread coming back will be excellent for us his confidence on the ball is so helpful in relieving pressure. We'll have to wait and see who is the best pairing but I think it isn't Barnett and Martin.

On the Elliot Ward front I don't think he is a prem player, he hardly ever played for west ham when they were in the prem.

De Laet is talented but he did give away 3 goals in 4 games at the beginning of the season, which is so frustrating!
 
tricky one. tend to agree with northants that ball playing defenders are better in the premier league. whitbread is our most talented centre half but he's also probably our slowest. our quickest is barnett who is a much more old fashioned, no nonsense defender. ayala will surely have some game time because he was signed for decent money in the summer and has almost become the 'forgotten man'! not seen enough of him to judge him fairly but centre half pairings is all about balance.

i'm as confused as anyone about a solution for our defensive woes but one thing we NEED to do is get back to basics GOING FORWARD this weekend. playing a weakened newcastle, i'd be less concerned about our defence and more interested in putting their own centre backs, whoever they may be, under immense pressure. stick bennett and pilkington on opposite flanks, give them loads of the ball, get some crosses in for BOTH holt and morison up front. lets give our opponents something to worry about defensively rather than us worry about our back line! attack is the best form of defence in our case!!
 
Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed said:
tricky one. tend to agree with northants that ball playing defenders are better in the premier league. whitbread is our most talented centre half but he's also probably our slowest. our quickest is barnett who is a much more old fashioned, no nonsense defender. ayala will surely have some game time because he was signed for decent money in the summer and has almost become the 'forgotten man'! not seen enough of him to judge him fairly but centre half pairings is all about balance.

i'm as confused as anyone about a solution for our defensive woes but one thing we NEED to do is get back to basics GOING FORWARD this weekend. playing a weakened newcastle, i'd be less concerned about our defence and more interested in putting their own centre backs, whoever they may be, under immense pressure. stick bennett and pilkington on opposite flanks, give them loads of the ball, get some crosses in for BOTH holt and morison up front. lets give our opponents something to worry about defensively rather than us worry about our back line! attack is the best form of defence in our case!!
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Totally agree about newcastle at the weekend without Tiote protecting the defence and both centre backs out it is our chance to completely bombard the new pairing whoever they manage to botch together!
 
Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed said:
tricky one. tend to agree with northants that ball playing defenders are better in the premier league. whitbread is our most talented centre half but he's also probably our slowest. our quickest is barnett who is a much more old fashioned, no nonsense defender. ayala will surely have some game time because he was signed for decent money in the summer and has almost become the 'forgotten man'! not seen enough of him to judge him fairly but centre half pairings is all about balance.

i'm as confused as anyone about a solution for our defensive woes but one thing we NEED to do is get back to basics GOING FORWARD this weekend. playing a weakened newcastle, i'd be less concerned about our defence and more interested in putting their own centre backs, whoever they may be, under immense pressure. stick bennett and pilkington on opposite flanks, give them loads of the ball, get some crosses in for BOTH holt and morison up front. lets give our opponents something to worry about defensively rather than us worry about our back line! attack is the best form of defence in our case!!
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if only you were on the coaching staff, superman. Totally agree with this - we need the wingers like against sunderland at home. two up front as well for sure.
it's my first home game for 18 months and i'm going with a toon fan, so i'm really up for this one!
 
ncfcwonky said:
It's not the first time that sort of thing has happened. Look at what happened in the closing minutes against Liverpool and the Samba goal against Blackburn.
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Those goals against Blackburn came from nowhere we switched off, keeping concentration was a problem we were having with De Laet but it's crept back in at times. I'm confident Lambert will work on it though.
 
Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed said:
tricky one. tend to agree with northants that ball playing defenders are better in the premier league. whitbread is our most talented centre half but he's also probably our slowest. our quickest is barnett who is a much more old fashioned, no nonsense defender. ayala will surely have some game time because he was signed for decent money in the summer and has almost become the 'forgotten man'! not seen enough of him to judge him fairly but centre half pairings is all about balance.
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It's all about keeping possession that's the gift with ball playing defenders, as well they tend to be more confident on the ball so no dodgy pass backs which in this league will punish us as we have discovered twice. If players are hoofing long balls up front or smashing them out for throw in's (which in some situations is acceptable) it's just going to create work for the midfield to try and win the ball back. I agree with the balance but if we could get someone with some speed who is cultured it would work.

Against teams like Man City If we had someone like Whitbread/Ward/Ayala fit too I;d be quite tempted to play Russell Martin as a sweeper and stick five players at the back I know it didn't work against Chelsea but against some teams it's for damage limitation sake and with pace you can strike them on the break, play the fullbacks a bit more forward like wing backs.
 
problem is northants, defenders with pace who are also cultured tend to cost about £30m! thats why i suggest balance as we can't have a player who is brilliant at both. not too sure what ayala is like so maybe he could be the answer. whitbread would have to play alongside barnett in my opinion as he is just far too slow. also don't agree with the sweeper. there was a time in the early 90s when it was employed by many teams, including ourselves, but its so outdated now and i've not witnessed a team play it successfully for about ten years. i doubt we will be able to, as you say chelsea away would have been a bout 10-0 had whitbread not come off and a change of system was necessary. three centre halves doesn't work these days. when you think most teams play with one up front - flexible with a 4-3-3 with two wide forwards, its so unbalanced that it does nothing other than see your team penned in and overrun. far better to jam-pack the midfield using two or even three holding players. its not pretty but it adds security. it didn't work on saturday as frankly man city were way too good and we didn't actually play very well. as i state above i feel we are making more problems for ourselves by trying to defend better. we don't defend appallingly but we do make mistakes. however nearly all the teams below 7th make mistakes. far better to play to our strengths which is to get the ball on the deck and attack with vigour down both flanks, using both full backs as well as wingers.
 
I actually think our best pairing long term could be rusty and dani ayala! People may disagree but i think martin has been a revelation at CB and easily again like last year has been a stand out performer in not such a natural role, and the reputation and pedigree that comes with ayala he could be one of the best CB's that has played for us in along time. Obviousley my honest opinion, but you have to think that all our CB's are half decent as it is and when was the last time we had 4/5 half decent CB's to choose from??

On the newcastle front, completely agree with bombarding them with our attacking prowess! I remeber hearing that the toon have gone so many games without changing there back 4 and with 2 CB's playing for the 1st time that surely only will come to our advantage! Fox and johnson in the middle with pilks and benno on the flanks, switching from time to time with moro and holty up top. Would be a nightmare for half the prem teams to deal with!
 
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