No they didn’t for the most part... We were practically record breaking for most possession in our own third and our own half last season... The playing 'out' did not usually occur with the back 4 that we still have here now. They've always been able to play between themselves at the back and keep the ball but have never been consistently good at progressing our possession into anything effective due to the time its always taken them to do so. We played to their limitations last season - ie; the playing out happened when various players dropped into the back line with them, or when Greaves took it upon himself and got us on the front foot, or when they had an ever present Seri in front of them to actually do the bit you're referring to for them. We had all the possession in the world last season, usually in front of our own goal, and the main complaint throughout was that we were far too slow to progress the ball from the back. We've been requiring the defenders to do a lot more than they've been used to this season. It's a big part of the reason we've been struggling alongside the massive squad churn further up the pitch. Good defenders; yes. Good ball players; only in odd moments here or there. Selles has brought more of a mixture of short and long balls into our game, and it has helped a bit because it takes some pressure off the guys at the back having to find balls to feet all the time. Our possession has decreased a lot but we're seeing we can do more with it at last.
Why do people keep citing that stat about playing in our third when it was for a specific game not the season and was myth busted at the time?
The problem is centre halves who can progress the ball and defend well cost £10m+ so it always seems unrealistic to expect us to be able to get 2. PLaying a style that required that always seem odd, and then when our CBs get criticism for not being able to progress the ball it always seemed odd and made little sense. 85-90% of Championship CBs can't progress the ball and defend well, the few that can are either at the parachute clubs or on their way into the PL.
So we didn't have too much possession in our own third, or own half last season, we didn't play out too cautiously and the back line we still have here now are, and always have been excellent at playing the ball out from the back progressively? No. Just, no.
I don't disagree with you. I'm not the one claiming our back 4 can do it. They can't. We're now playing in a way that helps them to concentrate on defending more and focuses less on transforming them all into 'midfielders that can defend'.
No we didn't have "practically record breaking" amounts of possession in our own third. We were no different to a bunch of teams some of whom made the play off's.
And we came close to play offs too. We picked a lot of points up due to the ability of the squad last season to create goals through a jam packed defense and then attempt to control games with possession. Where we struggled was transitioning quickly from defence to attack. What we didn't see much of were the defenders we still have here now, being great at playing the ball out. That rarely happened consistently. Seri was the smokescreen for that and he was very good at it usually, though was at times part of the reason it took so long to transition.
Of our centre-halves, I think Jones is comfortable playing out from the back but his progressive passing isn’t great. He either lacks the confidence to make those passes or lacks the football intelligence to see what’s ahead. It’s my biggest criticism of him. He’s a really good defender at this level and is composed enough with the ball at his feet but he struggles with progressive passing. McLoughlin is a better passer than Jones but not as good defensively. He’s slow and less graceful than Jones with the ball but has a better eye for a pass. Hughes is the best passer of the three in my opinion. Probably not as good defensively as Jones owing to not being as experienced and prone to an error but still solid defensively and also more mobile than McLouglin. Hughes is really good at carrying the ball out and making really good line-breaking passes. His pass to Giles against Swansea which led to that Slater sitter was brilliant.
For what it’s worth, I think there’s no one way of playing out from the back. Yeah, we can say lots of teams do it but not all teams do it the same way. Rosenior’s build-up from the back was incredibly patient, risk-averse and slow. It’s why some people found it dull. We would often intentionally slow down the game and allow the opposition to get back into a solid defensive shape instead of making quick passes. It prioritised retaining the ball and ‘control’ above all else. Lots of passing the ball to feet. Walter’s was different because it was unorthodox and required rotations into spaces. This often meant our passing out from the back was passes into space for players to take in their stride rather than passing to feet. Players also tended to carry the ball out a lot more too which is why Coyle often ran from right-back to left-wing to drag the other team out of position. I was watching Arsenal vs Brighton today and Brighton do it a little differently as well under Hürzeler. Lots of quick forward passes which is riskier than say Rosenior’s football but when it works it looks great. I think Sellés prefers that sort of football. If you watch teams like RB Leipzig, they do it like that too and Sellés considers Hasenhüttl one of his biggest influences.
I pretty much agree. The only thing I would say is that frustratingly, Jones probably has the better passing technique than McLoughlin, but as you say, McLoughlin has a much better eye for a pass, but they are often slightly clumsy passes. I suppose on balance, it still makes McLoughlin the better passer.
Jones is decent on the ball and a good defender at this level. Apart from having Hughes next to him I think he would benefit from having a right back next to him to offload the ball to who is more likely to make things happen.
What seems to get ignored with Hughes is that he's still raw and not great defensively. It's no surprise we've looked better defensively since he's been injured
Interesting opinion. Not sure I’d agree, perhaps he’s more likely to be caught out of position but I’d argue in individual moments he’s the best of the 3. Aerial duel % Hughes 80% Maka 74% Jones 59% (worrying) Ground duel % Maka 55% Hughes/Jones 51% Interceptions Hughes 1.3 per 90 Jones 1 per 90 Maka 0.6 per 90 Dribbled past per 90 Hughes/Jones 0.2 Maka 0.5 Hughes to me is the most aggressive of the 3 hence why I’d say he’s most likely to maybe be out of position. Jones has good recovery pace but lacks aggression and physicality which probably explains the poor aerial duel performance. Maka doesn’t lack the physical side but is very slow so is the most likely to get done 1v1. All 3 are comfortable on the ball though, Hughes is comfortably ahead in that department though
He's technically better than Greaves, but he's rash -as Greaves was a couple of years ago. There's a big potential profit with this kid, especially if we can get promoted whilst he's still under contract, but I'd take Sean's experience in a relegation battle. Hughes still has poor decisions in him.
There are different skills involved in passing and playing out. McLoughlin is good at longer balls, and Hughes is particularly good at crossfield passes. I think Jones is the best of the three at more intricate stuff though, like his little drop of the shoulder to go between two players today. McLoughlin struggles most at playing out from goal kicks because he gets his body shape wrong and gets forced into awkward angles and then has nowhere to go, like with that one against Boro where you could see he was in trouble a few seconds before he actually lost it.
By the end of last season we were very good at those goal kicks, which is what I was talking about. I'm not getting into another debate about speed of play, I wasn't talking about that. When we played Boro and Ipswich in the spring they were good, dominant sides who liked to press high on our goal kicks like Leeds did today, but we were able to deal with it and go toe to toe with these good sides. In both games, it was us who robbed them from their goal kicks to score. Today, Leeds totally penned us in on our goal kicks and kept taking the ball back from us time after time, leading to their total dominance for most of the second half, which was my point here. Most of the defenders involved are the same as last spring when we were good at it, but the goalkeeper and attackers are different, and I think those players really struggled in these situations.
I guess if we were to get one point from the Boro/Leeds games, to get it against TWS is much more enjoyable. Great credit to the boys to come back from 3-1 down to get the draw. Some good performances Kamara of course, and Pedro is a clever player.Matt Jacob's had a good game against Dan James, as did McLoughlin and Jones. Alzate is proving to be a great acquisition, and Puerta I hope we can turn his loan into a permanent. Harry Vaughan looks as if he has got his mojo back, which is good news. Things have certainly improved under Ruben's, and considering a lot of our best players are out injured, we are now at least picking up regular points. On to Donny, I hope we play a strongish side, as it would be good to have a run in the cup.
See I think this is comfortably Hughes. Hughes seems to play in slow motion he makes it look that easy when he’s on the ball. I think we have 2 good championship centre backs and 1 of the best 3rd choices in the division too. Full backs have been our issue in recent week, Coyle again today didn’t cover himself in glory. Jacob much improved though but can he do it consistently
Matty has come back into the team and looked a lot less raw. I also watched the kid at Gateshead a bit and he's potentially different level, but again, he's spent a lot of time injured. The more games he can get the better, He had his own chant with the heed army. And he had his own reputation on the toon also.
