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Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Rangers

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by PleaseNotPoll, Dec 11, 2024.

  1. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

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    Yeah pretty much. Was one of my concerns when he took over. Leaves too much to his coaches and is there just to over see things which isn’t enough imo.

    This will sound harsh but he’s amateur and arrogant. Not cut out for the micro detail needed at this level.
     
    #261
    Citizen Kane. likes this.
  2. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    Yes, because football like life is full of uncertainty. None of those outcomes is very unlikely for such a small number of games. Particularly because as I've said before, coming higher than sixth helps a lot whereas coming 7th to 18th makes no difference so we should be taking risks because of that asymmetry.
     
    #262
  3. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

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    Well that’s just wrong.

    7th means European football
    18th means relegation.
     
    #263
    Left on the Shelf and Dier Hard like this.
  4. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

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    It seems we only take one risk though, and that is constantly rolling the dice on the manager. We do this presumably because it is a simple operation and relatively cheap.

    We don't take the risk of sticking with a manager, we don't take the risk of selling players before their stock falls and we certainly don't take the risk of spending even slightly more than we'd be comfortable doing.
     
    #264
    KingHotspur likes this.
  5. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    King’s already disproven the 7th-18th point so I don’t need to elaborate any further there.

    In terms of uncertainty, I think I was pretty certain this season we’d struggle -
    https://not606.com/threads/transfer-thread-fact-and-fiction.343033/page-2041#post-17817928

    This was straight after the window had shut.

    In terms of risks, what risks? By the manager or the club? I see no risks from the club and I see more stupidity/ naivety than risk from the manager.
     
    #265
    KingHotspur likes this.
  6. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    Yeh mistyped..meant 8 to 17th. But it's very asymmetrical 1st is amazing 2 to 4 is very good. So might 5th be. 6th or 7th is OK anything else is indistinguishable.
     
    #266
  7. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    The high line is very risky but gives lots of reward if it works.
     
    #267
  8. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    It really isn't, though, considering the meat of the squad is Conte onwards

    It also has to be said that you could pick pretty much any Spurs squad and call it a patchwork quilt. Case in point, here's the squad who first qualified for the Champions League in 2010 broken down by who signed them
    Bloke in a Coat: Ledders
    Hoddle: Keane
    Pleat: Defoe
    Santini: ...moving swiftly on
    Jol: Lennon, Dawson, Kaboul, Assou-Ekotto, Rose, Jenas, Huddlestone
    Ramos: Modric, Bale, Gomes, Woodgate, Corluka, Pavlyuvhenko, Bentley
    Redknapp: Walker, Palacios, Crouch, Kranjcar, Bassong, Cudicini

    That's a far more dysfunctional array of coaches and tactics that assembled a squad (with one exception...) to the point that one key member of the squad was signed by David Pleat when he was caretaker for 2/3 of the season rather than a fulltime coach
     
    #268
  9. Solid Air 2

    Solid Air 2 Well-Known Member

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    since the prize money increased by £3m per position last season and in essence for no additional expense that isn't true from a financial point of view .
     
    #269
  10. vimhawk

    vimhawk Well-Known Member

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    I've hardly ever commented on our managers, and IMHO been a bit more tolerant than most on here. Sad to say then but I've just about had it with Ange. The problem is aiming for the one system while ignoring rather important consequences, and not having any alternatives. The only option is appears is option A, and the only objective is to do A, and do it better. The trouble is that I'm not sure that success in "A" (1) can be achieved on a regular basis given it's demands on the players and (2) is even a good idea in the PL. The problem with me recognising it is that there is a certain logic to what Ange is trying to do, and occasionally it works. And when you see things work there is a natural assumption that the success can be replicated. This makes it harder to analyse and dismiss compared to a system that never works. We have had some brilliant results under Ange, and I have been genuinely pleased on those occasions. Unfortunately in terms of the league, the reward you get for beating Man City is more or less wiped out by losing to Ipswich. You get the same points for beating Ipswich and I don't think it sounds too arrogant to suggest that we should be beating Ipswich (and several other teams we did not).

    I am not suggesting we go back to Conte and similar. That was awful. But it must be possible to play attacking - but not suicidal - football. To have a system that doesn't break the players trying to implement it. Having the most sprints in the league sounds good, but not if they are recovering to positions that are not properly covered. That creates more wear and tear on people and at best they get knackered and can't do it game in game out, and at worst they get injured. Even excellent athletes can't perform at 100% all the time. And I doubt that Ange has come up with a system that is so innovative that it hasn't been thought of before. Perhaps there's a reason that it hasn't been adopted in the PL before.

    I note everything people have said about man management (or lack of it), demeanor, in game management, squad rotation, obvious reluctance to compromise and so on. But I just wanted to make a higher level post. Basically wondering if Ange's system is actually possible (and desirable) in the PL. I've finally concluded that it isn't. And giving him more time is not going to make any difference.

    I hope I'm wrong.
     
    #270

  11. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    That's true but it still leaves asymmetrical steps as you go up the League...£3m a place then a few times that if you get in the EC, a few times more if you get EL and a few times more again plus a much bigger draw for players if you get CL.
     
    #271
  12. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    Another thing that's taken as a fact with not much evidence is this belief that players are suited to certain systems. In fact most ways of playing need centre backs, defensive midfield players, creative midfield players, strikers and wide attackers. The only position that is really different is full back/wing back/Ange back which need slightly different combinations of the same set of skills.
     
    #272
  13. Solid Air 2

    Solid Air 2 Well-Known Member

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    true but the simple fact that is 5 places = £15m which can then be spent on transfers / wages
     
    #273
  14. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Looks like Ange has lost the social media team...

    please log in to view this image
     
    #274
  15. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

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    Or hotels :emoticon-0102-bigsm
     
    #275
  16. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    The fact we don't have a DMF is a bit of an issue

    That being said, there's definitely profiles of players which fit one system but not another. Case in point Michael Dawson fit in with Redknapp and certainly would have fit in with both Conte and the Ubermensch, but was less suited for Poch or Ange entirely because he was a deep-sitting CB whose passing was either five yards either side to someone who could play with the ball or an aimless diagonal in the vague direction of the attacking third, yet both those systems need safe, reliable passers from front to back

    Similar goes for DMs: a Freund-like player would have worked for the Ubermensch or Nuno and likely could have worked for Redknapp given the players five yards either side of him were one of Modric, Bale or Lennon, but wouldn't have worked for Poch or Ange and TBH I'm not sure it would have worked for Conte either as there likely would have been an extra phase in transition that wouldn't have been there with Parker, Sandro or Wanyama
     
    #276
  17. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    Conte played attacking football in the 2021-22 part of his tenure.

    The problems always seem to come when events
    suddenly don't go their way (be it injury pile-ups,
    suspensions etc) .

    Perhaps Levy can get someone to build a football
    game simulation system where candidate managers
    play full games with randomly generated team sheets
    from the likely inherited squad
    (if they cannot deliver there then I doubt they will for real) .
     
    #277
  18. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    Ern doing his periodic "heartbeat" to inform
    (those of) Spurs 606 (that are vaguely interested)
    that he is still alive.
     
    #278
  19. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    Is it the claim that under the current debt
    servicing regime that new WHL is generating
    an EXTRA 100m + per season for on-pitch
    activities (transfer/wage fees) ??

    If so, then how can new WHL be preventing Spurs "from competing" ??
     
    #279
  20. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    So each table unit position now brings in 5m odd ??
     
    #280

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