WAR! What is it good for?

For me it's a bit late in the day to be demanding release of hostages, I said at the beginning of this conflict that Netty didn't care about the hostages, and I still maintain that stance, he fought this war because he wants rid of the devil (Hamas) and if the hostages are sacrificed in that cause, well they were. I expect many of them are dead anyway. That's not really meant as a criticism more of one of you made your choice Netty, and here we are. Not saying either that Israel shouldn't be demanding their return, but somewhere in all this someone has got to be putting out that olive brach. Many Palestinians for generations will never forget what happened in Gaza, and if it were me as one of them, I'd be wanting vegence for my family being destroyed for the rest of my life and the rest of my future generations lives. That's the evil of war.

 

And that is the very reason they took hostages in the first place, they had it all worked out, every major city in the Western World protesting about free Palestine but no mention about the hostages, or indeed a solution of how to get them back. Just give give give we want, no sympathy for all those slaughtered, no remorse, just a barbaric act to get themselves back on the world stage. With all the charity money they have had in all those years, they could be living like kings. But no total eradication of Jews is what they want, and they will not stop till they achieve their aim, I don't see anyone questioning why are they so barbaric.

 

What's Terry Waite up to these days, we should send him over to sort all this out lol.

 

All the info you need is in the link I provided.

Getting aid in has nothing to do with a ceasefire. It can and has been arranged throughout the conflict.

For this reason, the Resolution Draft is split into nine 'clauses', each dealing with a different component.

Clause 1, unsurprisingly, is the main bit that calls for an "immediate, unconditional and permanent ceasefire to be respected by all parties; and further reiterates its demand for the immediate and unconditional release of all hostages".

Clauses 3 and 6 deal with aid and the role of UNWRA etc.

The problem the US had with Clause 1 is that an "unconditional ceasefire" means Hamas doesn't have to give the hostages back if it doesn't want to. "Further reiterating" the "unconditional release of all hostages" is completely irrelevant as Hamas literally don't have anything else they could offer in return; as you've said, much of Gaza is rubble and Hamas is barely functioning as a cohesive entity.

The UK had no problem with Clause 1, which I find troubling. Our government's position is here: https://www.gov.uk/government/speec...-gaza-and-secure-the-immediate-release-of-the

You called this from day 1 brb and I was completely wrong to doubt you. Israel's #1 objective was never rescuing the hostages, it was to permanently cripple Hamas. Which means the only bargaining chip Hamas has is already less than certain to work, but at the very least the UNSC has the responsibility to try!

If a Resolution was drafted that said: "we call for an immediate and permanent ceasefire to be respected by all parties; conditional on the release of all hostages", the USA wouldn't have vetoed it, and the Israeli public would start a civil war to make Netanyahu abide by it.

Using this wording gives Hamas an excuse to keep the hostages and Netanyahu an excuse to keep flattening Gaza. That's why I'm disappointed.

 

They have had Terry Waite and took him for a hostage as well, now they have had more practice. When I was young that's all they did, plane hijackings and demand money with menaces, it was always about the money with them, How can a civilised society deal with a barbaric idealism, with their heads stuck in the Middle Ages, always looking for vengeance for the trouble they bring onto themselves,
No matter how your heart wrenches to see little kids killed or badly injured, it was them who were always building up to attack while pretending to keep the peace. Even if Israel didn't exist, it would be Shia and Sunny, or tribe versus tribe .It's time to stop it with the aid cash as it only enhances the heir achy to live lives of luxury, and only give aid in goods, Time to stop listening to what they want, and start dictating what they will get, providing they stop the barbaric ways

 

There is only one hope for an olive branch and that's for the Israeli public to massively increase the daily protests against Netanyahu. The fact that Israel is a democracy whose citizens have a voice is Gaza's only hope now. The Muslim world has abandoned them, the international community has abandoned them, unsurprisingly the strongest voices to end the conflict are on the streets of Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.

The UNSC just missed a massive opportunity to get that public out and protesting in unprecedented force. If the highest authority in the entire world says: "We call for a ceasefire WITH the release of all hostages" and votes that into reality, Netanyahu is cornered like he hasn't been for over a year.

That's all it needed. Once again, the UN has failed in its duty to further the cause of peace. And Pinkie wonders why I pour scorn over it.

 

But then Hamas will ask for all people in prison for murder and terrorism to be released as part of the deal, no matter how many innocent lives they have taken. So then on it goes want want want and never satisfied until they believe they have won. They don't think like a westerner would, give and take to get an agreement done,

 

This is precisely why the UNSC's role is so crucial. As the highest (supposedly) impartial third-party authority on the planet, it has the remit to 'lay down the law' and decide what the best path forward is for both parties. Its latest Draft didn't mention a word about prisoner releases because a) that has nothing to do with the current conflict and b) Hamas are simply not in a position to demand that as they are currently mostly buried under rubble.

 

Yet no matter how many olive branches the Israelis hand out, it is always them acting first for peace and were never the aggressor, In the 70 and 80s newspapers were filled with terrorism acts, and always demands from the terrorists until the world said no giving into terrorism demands

 

Historically perhaps you're right.

But I don't believe the current Israeli government is remotely interested in olive branches of peace.

Which is why the UN has a duty to force it to be interested.

And the only leverage that exists to make this happen is the return of the hostages.

So the UN chooses not to use that leverage.

My head hurts.

So does my heart.

 

Not their leaders living a life of luxury in the gulf states, on the European taxpayers' money, they are not bothered how many people suffer so long as their luxurious lifestyle continues

 

In life, we learn a lot from history and how to stop it repeating. Look at Hitler, did unspeakable things all across Europe, and we bombed and flattened every Germany city killing women and children, until the core of the problem had been eradicated only then did peace ensue, the root cause of the problem in Palestine has not been eradicated as soon as the aid comes streaming in to rebuild so will Hamas and their gun toting thugs for their slice of the pie. You have to look at the big picture and not a plaster fix for the present.

 

I'm older than you mate, just saying like

Well I think I am, had you down as in your 50's.

 

Yahya Sinwar would disagree .

 

On his tombstone should read "What goes around comes around or honi soit qui mal pence meaning Evil comes to those who evil do

 

^^^^^
On the money - indeed most of the active Hamas military commanders have also been killed in Gaza too...

 

well better put that on a lot of memorials on all sides of this conflict considering it is difficult to see "good" on the part of any of the actors in this tragedy .

 

However, the raid he planned was years in the making, tunnels, weapons depriving the kids of food education and medicines redistributing the money given in good faith, to his evil cause of exterminate the Jews a Hitler mk 2.And slaughter he did with no thought of mercy, women kids, Then crocodile tears when they get retaliation, Which is exactly what he wanted that's why he took hostages hoping to stop any retaliation,

 

... do you have any concept how long it would take to exterminate the population of Israel (let alone the worldwide Jewish population) with hand held machine guns?

... and I doubt anyone in Hamas thought that taking hostages would 'stop any retaliation' by Israel - they don't have much of a history of restraint ...

 

I see Bobby brown eh