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The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by Wandering Yid, Feb 9, 2016.

  1. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover Forum Moderator

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    I think Hamas and Hezbollah think Israel should not exist in its present form. The only solution is a state where Arabs and Jews and anybody else can live together with equal rights. That will not happen as long as fundamentalists believe the land is theirs by right and fundamentalist Christians in the US are looking forward to Armageddon and the returning Messiah.

    If humans are still around and dominant in a thousand years it will probably be because situations like this have been sorted. If we do survive I suspect it will be at a much lower level.
     
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  2. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

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    It does, but only up to a point. Beyond that, it is important to realise that ideology plays just as important a role as injustice.

    One key difference in this conflict to that in Ireland is the role of religion. Far more so than the sectarian divides that led to the Troubles. In this case the combatants on either side are stacked with leaders and movers who are firmly convinced that every inch of the land in question is theirs by divine right.

    Israel could therefore end all injustice by granting Palestinian civilians even greater rights and freedoms than its own and there would still be significant support to eradicate it anyway as its very presence on holy Muslim soil is considered a grievous affront to religious doctrine. This works in the other direction too.

    Some on here (no guesses who) are far too quick to forget that Hamas was established and soon broke away entirely from the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood precisely because it wanted to derail negotiations toward a two-state solution and the ending of injustices between Israel and the PLO in the build-up to Oslo. This aim was explicitly enshrined in their founding Charter in 1988, which I will quote (Articles XI and XIII):

    "The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day."

    "Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement...Now and then the call goes out for the convening of an international conference to look for ways of solving the (Palestinian) question...These conferences are only ways of setting the infidels in the land of the Moslems as arbitrators."
     
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  3. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    I am of Irish descent and the more militant republicans still believe that the British presence in the six counties represents an occupation of their country. The difference now is that there is no-one actually suffering so very few are prepared to fight for them.
    The radical solution to Palestine would be to have three separate parallel governments (Jewish, Christian, Muslim) covering the whole of Israel, Lebanon, Gaza and the West Bank with citizens of the region allowed to chose which one they wanted to vote for and reside wherever they liked. It would need agreement on running a united police etc but at least there would be no point in anyone dropping bombs or firing rockets because you'd be hitting your own people.
    After a while competition would lead to each of the Government's having similar laws and people would have learned that their enemies are pretty much like them.
    Impossible to get there from here though.
     
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  4. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

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    I may be ignorant of the topic, but I'd be interested to know if native Irish Catholics believe that God gave them every inch of land on the emerald isle and that the mere presence of Protestants is a sacrilegious, even if the latter was totally politically disenfranchised?

    I highly doubt that's the case and don't think I've read it incorrectly. In which case, the situation in Ireland is not similar enough to the situation in Israel to be helpful.
     
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  5. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    I completely agree with every word of this.
    It's pure coincidence that we both happen to have that green thingy beneath our usernames! <laugh>
     
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  6. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    please log in to view this image


    This is completely unrelated to the sex trafficking accusations that he's faced. Honest.
     
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  7. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    #33427
  8. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    You are entirely correct that this isn't the case but I don't think many Christians, Muslims or Jews think that about Israel either.
     
    #33428
  9. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

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    Don't underestimate this.

    It is chapter and verse in Hamas' Charter, and in Hezbollah's Doctrine.

    Meanwhile of the seven parties currently making up Israel's coalition government, five believe it while vast swathes of the Likud party believe it too. New Hope is the only real exception.

    Of course, this belief shouldn't necessarily translate into violence, but I'd imagine it makes that outcome significantly more likely.
     
    #33429
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  10. bigsmithy9

    bigsmithy9 Well-Known Member

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    The Irish were part of the Viking invasion of Britain.By the way,the Scots came from Ireland later to settle in Scotland with the Picts as neighbours.Strange that one!!!
     
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  11. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    The USA of America isn't going to live to see its 250th birthday at this rate
    please log in to view this image
     
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  12. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Such honesty and integrity...

    please log in to view this image
     
    #33432
  13. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover Forum Moderator

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  14. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    #33434
  15. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover Forum Moderator

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    Obviously Netanyahoo didn't take in the meaning of the boy who cried wolf.
     
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  16. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    So after days of saying that a nonce is the best option for Attorney General, while doing anything they can to stop the investigation into the nonce that could prevent them becoming Attorney general, the nonce has announced he will not stand for Attorney General

    US politics is fun...
     
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  17. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    I'm sure that he didn't come under any pressure to come to this decision.
    It's certainly not as a result of Marjorie Taylor Greene's bullshit horribly backfiring.
    She suggested that if his ethics investigation was released, then all of the ethics investigations should be released. Go on, then. Do it!
     
    #33437
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  18. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    The more things change...

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    #33438
  19. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Ah...
     
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  20. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    #33440

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