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The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by Wandering Yid, Feb 9, 2016.

  1. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    No, it'll happen to Labour because they ****ed off their core vote and gave floating voters no reason to vote for them - which you can get away with if the Tories are imploding, but you can't when you're carrying the can

    It's almost as if neoliberalism doesn't work
     
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  2. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    Should've stuck with Corbyn and lost again, really.
     
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  3. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    As I said at the time, I still don't get why they had Rayner stand for deputy leader and Long-Bailey as leader back in 2020, as that sounded like the two of them somehow both managed to fill out the wrong form and neither of them noticed

    Certainly would have drastically limited the chances of vote-losing twats like Streeting, Lammy, Reeves, Kendall and Phillipson getting elevated to such plum roles because that's what fellow vote-evaporator Mandelson wants

    ...you get the feeling I've seen a bunch of "Bernie Sanders cost Kamala the election" from people who though Harris ran a good campaign - who happen to be people who thought Hillary ran a good campaign eight years ago, because learning is for other people apparently
     
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    Last edited: Nov 7, 2024
  4. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    And, of course...
     
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  5. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    That's about the first reasonable take that Baddiel's ever had.
     
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  6. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    It isn't reasonable at all
    • Offering nothing doesn't energise potential voters, and Harris' campaign didn't offer anything - just like Hillary's campaign offered nothing
    • When there's a hot button issue, don't patronise at best or ignore at worst the voices on one side - which Harris' campaign consistently did
    • Tim Waltz connected far better than Harris when he joined the campaign - so Harris' campaign neutered him just in time for the debates
    • The Washington Post refusing to endorse Harris (at Jeff Bezos' instruction) had far more of an impact than anything on social media did
    You proved the point yourself with your comment about how Gaza will be wiped out under Trump. It's already getting wiped out under Biden and they're funding it, and when an opposing voice broke through Harris literally said "I'm speaking" to shut them up, and somehow the usual chickenshit liberals are blaming Jill Stein for using that as the basis of her campaign when Stein did not do enough to split the vote anywhere rather than consider the optics of that moment was enough on it's own to get the "**** it" response when they needed to galvanise voters to flush the orange turd like Biden's messaging four years ago did
     
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  7. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    Trump offered less than nothing. A concept of a plan. All that he had to offer was bullshit and hatred.
    The idea that Harris could've countered that by being anti-Israel is just laughable, frankly. Ridiculous.

    As for the Washington Post being more influential than social media, how have you come to that conclusion?
    A lot of right wing voters get all of their information from it now, rather than what's now being called the legacy media by them.
    Browse any of them with a clean browser and a fresh account and it's just endless propaganda from one side.
    There's a reason that a lot of young men have apparently voted for Trump and it's that.
     
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  8. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Blathering about the cost of groceries is offering something, even if it's a combination of bullshit and some glaring contextual omissions (i.e. there's a reason gas prices were lower four years ago, namely everyone being indoors due to a ****ing global pandemic four years ago) - and what was Harris offering about cost of living? About as much as 40% of a bag of Lay's

    It is not ludicrous to suggest standing up to Israel would counter that, because that is not what I said. What I said was that Harris' campaign should not have responded to pro-Palestinian voices by patronising them at best and ignoring them at worst, all while continuing to fund and arm Israel because that's a pretty obvious voter-loser with everyone except for people currently suspended by Columbia University for harassing, stalking and doxxing students. What makes this glaringly obvious that there's an inkling that they realise this was a mistake is the desperate attempts to make Jill Stein this election's Ralph Nader as that is the line she attacked Harris on, even though the data does not back up presenting her that way in the slightest - but that's the closest that Democrats will ever come to admitting that maybe there is the slight possibility that in theory it could be said that they potentially ****ed up, because centrists are always right and any suggestion that they aren't means you are either a Trump supporter, a communist, an antisemite, or whatever that day's designated smear is

    I mean, did anybody really not see this footage outside one Harris rally where the supporters were making a big song and dance about ignoring the pro-Palestinian protesters outside and think that maybe the messaging of the campaign was ****ed in the head?


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    How do I come to the conclusion that the Washington Post is more influential? Easy: because it was. If social media was so influential, why did Trump's Latino vote not dry up immediately after Tony Hinchcliffe showed his material has somehow got worse than when he called his audience "race traitors" for laughing at a Vietnamese comedian's routine a few years ago? That was all over social media, Trump's most desperate defenders reposted it on social media claiming it wasn't that bad...and the Puerto Rican vote did not dry up. On the other hand, in traditional media, the story about the WaPo refusing to endorse Harris blew up almost as much as their subscription numbers, which plummeted by 12% in the space of a couple of days - and that's before reminding you that Trump's core vote is the most bitter and twisted boomers in existence, and they get their news from Fox News and Newsmax, both TradMedia providers - and they have had a lot to do with sanewashing the likes of Ben Shapiro or Charlie Kirk in recent years, presenting them as something other than terminally online ****heads who cannot actually debate people face-to-face because when they do that they tend to shrivel up and resemble a pinecone, but TradMedia doesn't challenge it wants the status quo as is to the point BBC Verify exists to reinforce this, hence we're told centrism is the way forward when standing still in a room which is on fire is not the way forward
     
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  9. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    Making **** up and using the Two Santa Strategy is old news and impossible to counter honestly.
    You can point it out, but that's not as effective as just lying constantly and having powerful voices back you up.

    Those pro-Palestinian voices should've directed their ire towards the Republicans.
    Now they can be quiet as Netanyahu does whatever the **** he wants.
    As for Jill Stein, I've no idea why you keep bringing her up.
    She was largely irrelevant this time and was treated as such.

    Trump's latino vote is largely religious and conservative as a result.
    They probably wrote off Tony Hinchcliffe as the nobody that he is, even in right-wing social media circles.
    A lot of them also don't give a **** about Puerto Rico and barely consider it America.

    Trump voters don't get their news from the Washington Post and aren't influenced by it.
    You've illustrated that yourself by pointing out the subscription number hit.
    They're far more likely to get their information from Facebook, Youtube and other less mainstream sites.
    Personality cults abound there too, including Shapiro, Peterson, Rogan and a wide variety of equally dishonest bullshitters.
     
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  10. Left on the Shelf

    Left on the Shelf Well-Known Member

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    Neither are Latinos in the main. In fact the demographic influenced by print media is miniscule, and the fact that they didn't actually come out for either candidate just decreases that number.
    If the WP and LAT were influential advertising platforms, that would be where the bulk of the $m's would have been spent - rather than on social media where it actually went. :emoticon-0148-yes:
     
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  11. bigsmithy9

    bigsmithy9 Well-Known Member

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    Those young men who voted Trump will have to look after their ageing parents and grandparents.Why?Trump says he is removing Social Security (OAP) and Healthcare...to give his billionaires more tax breaks. YOU'LL BE SORRY! He'll take mine too.What to do?Start work until you drop dead on the job,if you can get one at old age or sell your house and go to Canada.I'm not a citizen.Been here 44 years so I'll be kicked out anyway!Maybe civil war is the answer.....!
     
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  12. The Ides of March

    The Ides of March Well-Known Member

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    https://us06web.zoom.us/j/86960054735?pwd=hahOBcrY6LKq4OeIBbrL7rarvA539I.1

    Maccabi Tel Aviv fans attacked in Amsterdam. This surprises me a bit as Ajax fans are reknown for their empathy with Jewish/Israeli people so perhaps it was mix of supporters of other Amsterdam clubs, pro-Palestinian protestors and just a good ruck between the ultras of Maccabi and Ajax!!!
     
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  13. The Ides of March

    The Ides of March Well-Known Member

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    The father of a"Duke" Fakir, of Four Tops fame" actually swam from Canadá to Detroit!!
     
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  14. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Would you Adam & Eve it, the sheer amount of context omitted for how this story is reported by pretty much everyone makes it a blatant propaganda piece

    And it's hardly the first time their fans have been turds in away games
     
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  15. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover
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    Trump had/has Policies

    1) Deport undocumented migrants
    While campaigning, Trump promised the biggest mass deportations of undocumented migrants in US history.

    He also pledged to complete the building of a wall at the border with Mexico that was started during his first presidency.

    The number of crossings at the US southern border hit record levels at the end of last year during the Biden-Harris administration, before falling in 2024.

    Experts have told the BBC that deportations on the scale promised by Trump would face huge legal and logistical challenges - and could slow economic growth.

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    2) Moves on economy, tax and tariffs
    Exit poll data has suggested the economy was a key issue for voters. Trump has promised to "end inflation" - which rose to high levels under President Joe Biden before falling again. But a president's power to directly influence prices is limited.

    He has also promised sweeping tax cuts, extending his overhaul from 2017. He has proposed making tips tax-free, abolishing tax on social security payments and shaving corporation tax.

    He has proposed new tariffs of at least 10% on most foreign goods, to cut the trade deficit. Imports from China could bear an additional 60% tariff, he has said. Some economists have warned that such moves could push up prices for ordinary people.

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    3) Cut climate regulations
    During his first presidency, Trump rolled back hundreds of environmental protections and made America the first nation to withdraw from the Paris climate agreement.

    This time, he has again vowed to cut regulations, particularly as a way to help the American car industry. He has constantly attacked electric vehicles, promising to overturn Biden's targets encouraging the switch to cleaner cars.

    He has pledged to increase production of US fossil fuels - vowing to "drill, drill, drill" on day one in favour of renewable energy sources such as wind power.

    He wants to open areas such as the Arctic wilderness to oil drilling, which he argues would lower energy costs - though analysts are sceptical.




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    4) End Ukraine war
    Trump has criticised the tens of billions of dollars spent by the US on supporting Ukraine in its war with Russia - and has pledged to end the conflict "within 24 hours" through a negotiated deal.

    He has not said what he thinks either side should give up. Democrats say the move would embolden President Vladimir Putin.

    Trump wants the US to disentangle itself from foreign conflicts generally. Regarding the war in Gaza - Trump has positioned himself as a staunch supporter of Israel, but has urged the American ally to end its operation.

    He has also pledged to end the related violence in Lebanon, but gave no detail on how.

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    5) No abortion ban
    Against the wishes of some of his supporters, Trump said during the presidential debate with Kamala Harris that he would not sign into law a national abortion ban.

    In 2022, the nationwide constitutional right to abortion was overturned by the Supreme Court, which had a majority of conservative judges following Trump's first presidency.

    Reproductive rights became a key campaigning topic for Harris, and several states approved measures to protect or expand abortion rights on polling day.

    Trump himself has regularly said states should be free to decide their own laws on abortion, but struggled to find a consistent message of his own.

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    6) Pardon some Jan 6 rioters
    Trump has said he will "free" some of those convicted of offences during the riot in Washington DC on 6 January 2021, when his supporters stormed the Capitol building in an effort to thwart the 2020 election victory of Joe Biden.

    Several deaths were blamed on the violence, which Trump was accused of inciting.

    He has worked to downplay the riot's significance and recast the hundreds of supporters who were convicted as political prisoners.

    He continues to say many of them are "wrongfully imprisoned", though has acknowledged that "a couple of them, probably they got out of control".

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    7) Sack Special Counsel Jack Smith
    Trump has vowed to sack "within two seconds" of taking office the veteran prosecutor leading two criminal investigations against him.

    Special Counsel Jack Smith has indicted Trump over alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election, and over his alleged mishandling of classified documents.

    Trump denies any wrongdoing, and managed to prevent either case coming to trial before the election. He says Mr Smith has subjected him to a "political witch hunt".

    Trump will return to the White House as the first ever president with a criminal conviction, having been found guilty in New York of falsifying business records.


    Harris basically carried on with Biden policies with less clear policies. The working class voted for Trump because the Democrats had done little to help them. Do not discount the growing anti Israel feelings in America.

    LIke in the UK, the choice is between two right wing candidates so it was natural to boot out the incumbent in both cases. Frying pans and fire?
     
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  16. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Gee, lucky they weren't saying Free Palestine, or the tear gas and handcuffs would be out...
     
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  17. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover
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    Trump Info from The University of Pennsylvania.
     
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  18. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

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    Israelis are among the worst tourists in the world, but nothing the Maccabi fans did justifies the "response", nor does it explain the fact that these attacks appear to have been coordinated days in advance, with cars and taxis ferrying hooligans to specific hotels where it was known (how, we must asked) that Israeli tourists were staying.

    What happened in Valencia is awful, but why would Dutch people get so upset about a tragedy happening in Spain?
     
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  19. The Ides of March

    The Ides of March Well-Known Member

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    I did not want to say anything about IsraelĂ­ propaganda in turning this into an antisemetic issue rather than Maccabi fans being just as "lively" as those of any within the Balkan.countries.
     
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  20. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    The issue is that buried deep in the **** Trump was saying there was a kernel of truth about the cost of living crisis, which he likely stumbled onto by mistake considering how often the messaging was undermined by basic facts (i.e. the time someone stood in a supermarket saying you couldn't buy a half dozen for less than $5...while the shelf directly behind him said a half dozen eggs cost $3.99) but the cost of groceries has been an issue in the US, even if there has been a metric ****ton of bad faith takes on this (i.e. Tuckwit Carlson's visit to a Russian supermarket where he spent the average monthly wage in Russia on his weekly shop and said how marvelous it was that things in Russia were so cheap)

    ...and that's where Starmer's going to lose, because every single "tough decision" that Reeves was all too glad to make (increasing heating bills when Starmer said they wouldn't, increasing tuition fees when Starmer said he'd scrap them, hiking bus fares etc etc etc) is giving people reason to believe that Starmer does not give a **** about them during an ongoing cost of living crisis

    No, the pro-Palestinian voices should not have directed their ire towards the Republicans, considering it was not a Republican government who sat idly by and watched 95% of Gaza get flattened while tens of thousands of children were shot, bombed and burned alive. That was the Democrats, who were happy to fund and arm the force shooting, bombing and burning alive children, and when anybody spoke up were told "I'm speaking"

    Also, if you think pro-Palestinian voices will be quiet under Trump, you probably thought Harris ran a good campaign

    Why am I bringing up Jill Stein? Because the hard centre extremists are trying to make her this election's Nader, even though the voting data simply does not support that claim in the slightest - but the fact that Harris gave Stein an angle to attack her from and did not readjust when it was becoming obvious they had created a vote-loser, and instead carried on regardless while her supporters were literally yelling at kids in strollers without considering the optics of that were utterly ****ed, that's the sort of thing that gives potential voters pause. But don't worry, plenty of people will do an Ashworth on Harris' behalf saying that it was the voters which were wrong, not the fact that she gave voters reason to look elsewhere

    They did not write off Tony Hinchcliffe, they pointed at the numbers his podcast does on Spotify as some kind of defence. Said something racist? Don't worry, your podcast has 15m followers, which apparently means you didn't say anything racist - you know, sort of like how Little Britain wasn't racist as it did absurd numbers when the DVD boxsets came out twenty years back

    As for saying they don't give a **** about Puerto Ricans, maybe look up how many Puerto Ricans live in certain states before saying things like that. There's 5.6m of them in the US, with over a million in both New York and Florida and just under half a million in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. Oh, they give a **** alright about Puerto Ricans, not least because they're the Latinos you can make fun of

    I didn't say Trump voters get their news from the Washington Post, I said the Washington Post refusing to endorse Harris demonstrates that TradMedia has far more of a say than people claim, given the story was that the WaPo refused to endorse a candidate. Now, how do you think a national newspaper refusing to endorse a candidate would play to an undecided voter in a swing state? About the same as The Sun refusing to endorse William Hague 25 years ago, that's how - but it doesn't matter to Jeff Bezos that the WaPo took a 12% subscriber hit, because Black Friday is right around the corner and he'll make that lost revenue back in seconds
     
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