Martin O'Neill - Is he past his best?

He wouldn't. He left Villa because he didn't get enough financial backing the summer before he left. He would have left us for the same reason.

 

Pardew has had a good 13 games for sure but there's a long way to go yet... Give it another two years.

 

Just 13? He's been our manager for 35 games, and we've only lost 7 of them.

 

I chose to ignore last seasons great exploits as Pardew failed to guide Newcastle to a finish above a Sunderland squad managed by Steve Bruce... However a great start this season and I think Newcastle are likely to finish top half this year.

When assessing the credentials of a top class manager I feel it is more important to look at the number of trophy's/titles/European cup finals they have won/been associated with along with how they have consistently performed season in season out as opposed to 13 games at the start of one season (Like I said, Pardew finished below Steve Bruce last season). Martin O'Neill is hands down and quite simply superior to Pardew in this department but lets not knock Pardew too much as he has done very well so far this season.

I think you will probably have a fuller indication of Pardew's comprehensive skill level over the next couple of years, assuming he is still in the driving seat ofcourse.

 

Despite knowing how good he's been I honestly didn't know those exact figures. Remarkable .

 

I know we didn't finish above Sunderland, but thankfully I'm not the sort that would use that to define success. Had Sunderland been without Darren Bent for the entire season and had Newcastle not thrown away a 3 goal lead on the last day, things may have been different.

I have never once said Pardew is a better manager than O'Neill. If you look at their respective CV's you'd pick MoN all day. Not taking the piss, but there's no doubting that O'Neill has the League Cup down to a fine art. Pardew's CV only has an FA Cup final loss. My question was would O'Neill necessarily be doing better if he was Newcastle manager today? Or would he have taken the hump long ago due to the lack of funds available?

 

No way of knowing, is there! You might of been top under Martin O'Neill!

Pardew has done the business so far this season and all respect for that however I must admit that when taking a longer term view I would certainly rather have Martin O'Neill as opposed to Alan Pardew.

I have longed to see Martin O'Neill at SAFC ever since Sir Niall and the Drumaville lads came in to steady the ship. Taking into consideration what we have seen Pardew achieve thus far this season doesn't sway my mind one iota.

 

Apologies, it's 8 league games (City, Spurs, Fulham, Everton, Stoke, Villa, Liverpool and City again). 10 in total from 38 if you count Stevenage and Blackburn in the cups.

 

Still great really. He's an impressive lad, old Pards.

 

But at the same time, if we got the choice tomorrow of dropping Pardew and getting O'Neill, I'd be 100% against it. I think it's unfair that Pardew is written off by so many people simply for exceeding their expectations of him.

If every football club and it's owners, players and fans were exactly the same, you could easily sit there and say X will be better there than X, but that's not the case at all.

 

It's whoever is a best fit for a particular club surely.

Pardew seems to be able to operate within the constraints that Ashley/Lambias must bring and he he's got the best out of the Newcastle squad that's for sure.

Also, and I've said this for a while now, I've been impressesd when I've seen him interviewed; seems like a decent bloke, which is not what I expected from a mate of Ashley's although I have noticed a little hubris creeping into the last couple of interviews I've seen.

I'm still not yet convinced that Pardew has any real solidity as a top-flight manager though and I personally wouldn't feel really confident in him if he was ours... I might have to change my mind if Newcastle's form continues though.

I'm hoping and expecting O'Niell will be a good fit at Sunderland, I think his record shows that he knows what he's doing and I doubt we'd see that tactical naivity that cost us dearly this year. I also expect that he won't keep losing strikers on the last couple of days of a tranfer window!

I never gave any creedence to Bruce's Newcastle roots being an issue but it does feel pretty good to have someone who was a fan of the club as a youngun in charge... I suppose it's that emotional bond we all want to feel with the manager and players (and by the gods don't the players let us all down!!)

Anything more about how well O'Niell or Pardew will do over the next 18 months is just chest-beating by the respective fans but for now at least both sets of fans have got the manager they want it seems so everyone should be happy!!

 

It's simple really.

Newcastle have Pardew and are very happy.

We have o Neill and we are happy too.

Who's got the biggest cock is immaterial.

 

Whatever MON will do, he'll certainly let your lads play better football than the dress Bruce was serving up. Let's face it, Bruce's teams play a lot like Allardyces teams, just less effectively. Even if you're not more successful at least it'll be more fun to watch.

What i like best about Pardew as a mag is hes honest. He says when somethings not a penalty, when its offside, when we get lucky etc. Fairplay to Pards, Fergie or Wenger never do that. They just moan about decision they didn't get. It's probably wiser to just moan in light of future decisions but it's refreshing for a manager to just speak the truth after seeing stuff on tv.

Re MON, miles better than Mark Hughes, at least a proper manager who doesnt' pose around the touchline. Can't stand Mark Hughes personally, MON seems a good guy a bit erratic but a genuine fellow.

 

This isn't true. He made Agbonlahors career and Mon argued there wasn't enough quality in the youth squad to use. He promoted what he could.

You seem to think that his policy of buying established player is somehow a failed one? 3 consecutive top 6 places tells a different story though. In 3 years he took Villa from bottom half to top 6 and on the verge of breaking the established top 4. In 3 years only.

Of course it took some big spending but look at how much Downing, Milner and Barry were sold for? £50m +.

Roll on the good times.

 

Bit like Keegan Funds dry up and he moves on. Celtic was an easy gig in a 2 team league.

 

I'd agree with this. We're doing very well under Pards, and O'Neill has a good CV, so we're obviously going to like our respective managers just fine (presuming MON becomes manager).

 

O Niell is a gamble but if it works for him he will lead them into the top 8.

 

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To answer the original post - O'Neill isn't past it and I reckon if he had stayed at Villa they'd still be pushing for Europe.

You forgot about Ashley Young, and every one of them was bought at a young age and shipped on at the height of their talent and market value (except Barry of course who came through the ranks). Hardly ideal really but he CAN spot a player, no doubting that.

 

Nope... The Scottish league had been a 1 team league during the previous 10 years running up to Martin O'Neills appointment.

Rangers had won the Scottish championship 11 out of the previous 12 seasons prior to Martin O'Neill being appointed. Martin O'Neill broke that decade long dominance winning 3 of the next 5 titles.

I recall the media readily mocking Martin O'Neill for taking on the task of turning Celtic around.... He proved them wrong.