WAR! What is it good for?

They can blow up your right testicle as your pager sits near it but can’t wipe out specific targets without blowing up the whole neighbourhood

My theory and I’m sure it is many others too…they kill the kids to wipe out the next generation as much as possible…I believe that this is an underlying philosophy in their strategy just as I believe the likes of Hamas don’t care about the people, they want the victory

both going to hell

 

More simply, Gaza wouldn't be under rubble if Israel hadn't bombed the **** out of it.

Funny how they can take out a specific floor of a building when they want to. But seem to have flattened the whole of Gaza

 

Said this right after Israel started their revenge. They wanted to crush Gaza and forcibly remove it as a functioning entity. They tried to get Egypt to take Gazans over the border in an attempt to annex that land and for it never again to be Palestinian territory. This all happened despite Citizen Kane telling me that Israel wanted nothing to do with Gaza.

Hamas can **** themselves too, as they don't care about how many people are killed as it's all Martyrdom for them. But this idea that they shouldn't put fighters, arms etc in amongst civilians is an excuse that Israel use to wipe everybody out. Hamas are not a functioning army with bases and military installations, if they were Israel would have taken out their bases years ago. They are a resistance force that is entwinned within ordinary society, the very reason they built tunnels was to try and hide themselves from plain sight.

 

This theory doesn't stand up against the facts.

Yes, there has been widespread destruction.

Yes, unacceptable numbers of innocent civilians have died, including many women and children.

But the civilian:combatant ratio is still hovering around 2:1, which is far too low to achieve the "goal" you've described.

Ordering civilians to evacuate future combat zones is also counter-productive to the "goal" you've described.

Israel could have annihilated the entire above-ground population of Gaza within a week of Oct 7th if it wanted to. The fact that it didn't, suggests that it had a different goal in mind to "wiping out the next generation as much as possible".

A year on, 98.6% of that next generation is still alive.

 

42,000 Gazans killed in the strip

Are you trying to tell us that Israel have killed 84,000 combatants and that the 42k figure is acceptable ?

 

Only one member of the current govt argues for this, and that is Betzalel Smotrich.

And he is a complete bellend.

 

could have but they are too smart to be that rash, it’s a bad look for the watching world…it’s the long game that is being played here.

You see me bro, I don’t do politics, I don’t take sides. I understand or try to understand human behaviour. I know the faiths in question and their century old thought patterns. For me, Hamas do not represent my faith, the innocent people do though and innocent people are on both sides…it’s the only approach I can have or am willing to have to this issue.

I truly believe within the hearts and minds of the Isreali leaders, they wish to get rid of everyone of the current and tomorrows generation and Hamas just want the victory because ultimately you and I know that both parties are holding onto some warped version of their religious scriptures. The political dancing is just a show for the modern world to digest….. that has to be maintained without making it obvious that the Isrealis are indeed ****s just as much as Hamas.

ive seen footage of IDF smashing kids elbows with bricks to break them…that’s not war that’s personal inbred hatred…just like Hamas kidnapping and possibly raping. This is no honourable war so i don’t get caught up with numbers, percentages and such like as seen through the eyes of the suited and booted…I can only find common ground with the everyday people who as usual are the ones that suffer the most.

As you will know from my comments on our team whenever we discuss them being mega **** , i always approach evaluating a situation through psychology of the mind, the mindset and the bullshit in it because ultimately every good and bad deed starts in the head.

 

Other way round but figures are generally unreliable and factor in any **** who has died for any reason, ‘combatant’, civilian or part-time civilian/part-time combatant who isn’t proper Hamas but joined in for the fun of it on their day out.

 

Apologies if my maths wasn't expressed well.

Even comparing modest estimates of number of combatants killed (14,000) with highest estimates of civilians killed (30,000) and you end up with a ratio of appx 2 civilians killed per combatant (actual simplified ratio would be 7:15)*.

In purely urban warfare**, a ratio of 1:3 is considered 'good' ***. 1:9 upwards is considered genocide. Israel is therefore miles off that benchmark.

I wasn't commenting to the acceptability of the facts, that is for each individual to decide.

All I was saying is that if Spurlock's claim as to Israel's "goal" is accurate, they are doing a terrible job at achieving it, by any measure.



*Similar to the battle of Mosul against ISIS
**In 'open warfare' or field conflict, the ratio is 1:1 for obvious reasons.
***The conflicts in Korea and Vietnam hit this ratio.

 

Seems that the Israeli intelligence agency had draw up a plan to enact exactly that, except Egypt refused to take refugees, knowing it would weaken the case for the establishment of a Palestinian state if Israel was allowed to throw Palestinians out of Gaza.



5.The three options under examination are
:a.Option A: The population remaining in Gaza and the import of PalestinianAuthority (PA) rule.
b.Option B: The population remaining in Gaza along with the emergence of a local Arab authority.
c.Option C: The evacuation of the civilian population from Gaza to Sinai.

6.From an in-depth look at the options, the following insights can be derived:a.

Option C - The option that will yield positive, long-term strategic outcomes for Israel, and is an executable option. It requires determination from the political echelon in the face of international pressure, with an emphasis on harnessing the support of the United States and additional pro-Israeli countries for the endeavor.
b.Options A and B suffer from significant deficiencies, especially in terms oftheir strategic implications and the lack of long-termfeasibility. Neither of them will provide the necessary deterrent effect.

https://www.scribd.com/document/681...er-on-Gaza-s-Civilian-Population-October-2023

 

There is no way anybody can justify the murder of 42,000 innocent civilians, no matter what kind of spin they want to put on it.

It's unacceptable.

In international law, an occupying force has a duty to protect the civilian population, a count that Israel has woefully failed, on all counts, for decades.

 

Take out those who aren’t actually innocent, weren’t killed by Israel etc. and we’re probably knocking a nice chunk off that number.

They actually have protected the civilian population quite well by war standards, often putting themselves and their missions in jeopardy to do so. I’d rather they just got the job done even if that meant doubling or tripling the number but unfortunately they work to a higher standard even if it makes no difference to wet wipes crying about it. Plenty of ‘innocents’ took their shot and joined in on October 7th. Plenty of them also knew exactly where the hostages kept in civilian homes were.

 

There's footage and testimony from IDF soldiers who have used snipers to shoot children in the street too.

I've no doubt Hamas would do similar, as they did on 7th Oct last year

But for Israel and those who sympathise with them, there's no way this is some kind of simple military operation to remove a 'terrorist' threat.

In the document I posted above, it talks of Israeli rehabilitation of Palestinians 'de nazification' (the irony) to try and get them to see Israel as some kind of benevolent overlord. It's like the ****in Chinese and the Uyghur muslims and their 're-education' programmes.

 

Kindly post links to that footage.

 

Bullshit. You're trying to justify the slaughter of 42k civilians because some people joined with Hamas on 7th Oct and others knew where hostages were being kept. That's called collective punishment and is a war crime. Calling people wet wipes for highlighting what an atrocity it is moral bankruptcy from you.

The fact that you'd gladly see 126,000 dead Gazans say it all to be honest.

 

I did at the time, it's in this thread somewhere.

 

Double it and add 50. I’m tired.

 

Like it or hate it, international law itself is totally fine with the ratio of civilian casualties. I've explained that very clearly above. If you are angered by that, I suggest you take it up at the Hague.

A governing force has a far greater duty to protect its civilian population than an occupying force. Hamas neglected to do this for 18 years and then signed a death warrant for its own people on Oct 7th.

An occupying force's first duty by international law (once Causa Belli is deemed justified) is to win. Its second duty is to protect as many of its assets as possible while winning. Its third duty is that, the course of winning, it must demonstrate that it did so without willfully exceeding international limitations on civilian casualties.

Only Spurs have a knack of turning victory into defeat. I have no interest in watching Israel do the same because it prioritises the protection of civilians over the defeat of its enemies.

In a sentence, you're a top bloke but your opinions are not based on knowledge or application of international law, and when said law is presented to you very plainly you ignore it if it doesn't fit within your viewpoint, which is understandably based on emotion and instinct. And I don't mean that in a spiteful way. It usually shows that a person is sensitive, caring and compassionate, which you probably are.

Sadly none of those qualities are of any use in war.

 

Please find them and re-post.

That is a very, very serious allegation and if proven, there are people in Israel I will raise it directly with.

Utterly unacceptable if true.

 

There’s plenty former IDF soldiers on YouTube talking about their PTSD due to the wrongs they have committed during these conflicts…all of them full of regret, all angry with their leaders.