Time for Jol to pack his bags.

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Bandit

Bandit

Active Member
Mar 30, 2011
2,747
7
38
Oxford
Evening all!

My absence from not606 has coincided with me beginning my Masters degree at University, which has understandably taken up a lot of my time.

On to the topic at hand, watched the game tonight and became compelled to post on here for the first time in months. The message being: Martin has to go.

Anyone who has a differing opinion, and there will be some, please consider the pros and cons since Martin has come to CC.

Pros:

Has developed Dembele into a better player
Has given Frei and Briggs an (albeit small) chance in games

Cons:

Offensively we are atrocious, Jol should have splashed £12 million on a striker not winger
Defensive lapses that weren't there under Hughes
Promise of Dutch attacking football has not been delivered
Fallout's with Zamora, Johnson, Kasami
Signings have badly under-performed (Riise, Ruiz, Kasami, Sa) Others don't get game time
One league win at home this season (against a promoted side)
Constant change in formation and personnel (Hughes + Senderos)

The Spuds defeat 3-1 was very hard to take, we performed admirably and if not for Friedel would have won at a canter. Tonight's defeat I could care less about, we didn't try for the three points so deserved to leave with none.

Even against Arsenal we pushed forward much more, can you really say Twente have a better defence than Arsenal? Why the fear of pushing forward?

Looking at the Everton and Wigan games, I said to myself if Martin can't get us four points from this then he is not the man for us. Safe to say we got three, an undeserved three at that, with only the woodwork keeping Wigan out.

Martin won't turn it around in January like Hughes did. Hughes had AJ and Zamora to come back from injury and was playing EJ and Kamara upfront. Martin has Zamora, AJ, Dempsey, Dembele and Sa to choose from.

Unfortunately it doesn't look like there is a manager out there at the moment who could come in and perform better. Martinez would be my choice, but would he leave Wigan and join us after turning down Villa in the summer? Probably not.

Opinions welcome.
 
We should not sack Jol. We were negative tonight and I am puzzled myself why we played more open last Saturday and so defensive tonight.

We all expected the youngsters to feature and would have been better to loose but gain experience.

Disagree on Ruiz and Kasami. They need more time both. Riise yes has not been what you would expect. Sa was not given a chance yet. As for defence we have had too many injuries.
 
Evening Madness

I can take losing, as long as we give it a good go. Tonight really was a must win, a victory meant we would have a higher seeding for the last 32 and potentially avoid a big name. We were open against Arsenal so I expected us to go out there tonight and give it a real good go, but that 90 minutes was watching paint dry.

I agree that Ruiz and Kasami both need time, but 5-10 minutes at the end of the game is not what is required, and that's all Martin is willing to give. Making your second sub on 85 minutes when it's 0-0? Baffling. Playing AJ as a WING BACK? Would have loved to have seen Briggs brought on, to see him and Frei bursting down the wings, but when the goal is 0-0 that ain't gonna happen.

Tell me about these injuries in defence? Apart from Baird, who else was missing tonight? Apart from Riise, who has been awful, I have no problems with the defence. Kelly has come in and done okay, same with Senderos, while Hangeland, Hughes and Baird have been their reliable selves.
 
Oh here we go again. Expecting Fulhaman to pop up again after being quiet during a spell where we've been playing well.

Jol needs to stay, he needs time, blah blah, I've said it all before. Who would we get in? Ancelotti? Rafa? How about Steve Bruce?

You'd rather bring in Martinez, the guy who's kept his team in the PL by the skin of his teeth the last two seasons? And who are BELOW us in the league?! The mind boggles...
 
Completely agree - but you won't find many on here who will. I have been convinced Jol was not the Man for us since about October - it was early but the signs were there if you cared to look. Agree with your comments regarding the signings as well.
Ruiz is a big disappointment and has been since game 1. Although to be fair he doesn't get a huge amount of game time, but then again, if he was better I am guessing he would have forced his way into the starting line up. Looks like £10 million doesn't get you much nowadays.

I am also concerned that, if Jol is still with us come January, Mo will not back him with money for signings (besides, who of any quality wants to come to a side that could be in a relegation battle). He has seemingly wasted a good amount of wedge and we all know what Mo is like with the purse strings if he feels manager's aren't delivering bang for his buck in terms of players.
 
Evening Bandit, maybe due to your studies you did not follow that close. This is not a patronising line.

Hughes had an injury some time ago playing on an international. Same as Kelly.

Agree on Riise and commented on him. Think is time for Briggs to step in!

Very defensive tonight and as frustrutated as you are but sacking Jol will solve nothing.
 
Evening Bidley

You say Jol needs to stay, care to elaborate on this? He needs time? Is 27 games not enough time then?

Martinez has his side playing attractive attacking football, it's not his fault the club doesn't have any money. He has to make do with what he has got at his disposal, which he has done well with. There was a reason Villa offered him the job as manager.
 
I was convinced Jol was the man for the job. Even in the early games and disappointing results (Wolves, Newcastle, Blackburn) but the Everton, Wigan and tonight's game confirmed my doubts. As mentioned earlier, as long as you remain playing attractive football, the results will come, tonight was not attractive and neither was it against Wigan either. Twente and Wigan are not Barcelona, so why the need to play counter attack and hope the oppositions strikers have a mare?

As I also mentioned earlier, my issue is not with the defence, Senderos and Kelly have done fine when stepping in, so please do not make Hughes's injury an issue.
 
Bandit we are playing attacking football and very attractive. We had Tottenham and Everton on the ropes. We managed to loose both.

I said that football has an element of luck. Had we scored tonight despite they formation which was puzzling the least none of us we would comment on a negative way. We are not Man U or Chelsky or any of the rich clubs.

All the clubs who are doing well stick to their manager and give him a chance. We need to do the same.
 
FFC_Madness said:
Had we scored tonight despite they formation which was puzzling the least none of us we would comment on a negative way.
Click to expand...

I have already mentioned that the Wigan game (an away win) was one of the games which confounded my doubts, so even if we had won tonight, I wouldn't have been happy. If we had played the way we did against Spuds tonight and lost, I would have little complaints.

All the clubs that are doing well stick to their manager? Yes they do, because they are doing well, why sack a manager when he's doing well? We however are not, Jol needs to prove that he is the right man for the job, and so far there have been little to no signs that proves he is.
 
Bandit said:
Evening Bidley

You say Jol needs to stay, care to elaborate on this? He needs time? Is 27 games not enough time then?

Martinez has his side playing attractive attacking football, it's not his fault the club doesn't have any money. He has to make do with what he has got at his disposal, which he has done well with. There was a reason Villa offered him the job as manager.
Click to expand...

He's the best we have available to us. He's trying to get us playing a totally different style of football to what we're used to - going from well-drilled defensive fortress to marauding attack is never going to always produce favourable results. 27 games is a lot, but if you think how short a space of time they've been played in, the first XI have rarely stayed the same.

All that aside though, do you honestly think a revolving door of managers (which is what we're becoming) is the route to success? I don't.

Martinez has done nothing to suggest to me he's any good. Wigan were doing alright until he took over, no? If there was a reason Villa offered him the job, I'll be damned if I can think of it.
 
Bandit said:
Wigan and tonight's game confirmed my doubts. As mentioned earlier, as long as you remain playing attractive football, the results will come, tonight was not attractive and neither was it against Wigan either. Twente and Wigan are not Barcelona, so why the need to play counter attack and hope the oppositions strikers have a mare?
Click to expand...

Hate to piss on your strawberries mate, but we BEAT Wigan.
 
Bidley

Hughes tried to get us playing a different brand of football, and he failed. It was only after Christmas, when the players reverted to the way they had played under Roy that we finally began to get some points on the board. Jol trying to get us to play a totally different style of football isn't going to be much good if we are playing in the Championship next year is it?

Looking at the table also, with all three promoted clubs doing reasonably well, this leaves us in real danger. Blackburn are gone as long as they stick with Keane, so that leaves Wolves and Wigan, Sunderland won't be involved now that Bruce is gone. Both Wolves and Wigan have experience in this dogfight and so far have always pulled away late on. Would you be certain that if we were in the same position now with five games to go that we would stay up?
 
I'm well aware that we BEAT Wigan, do you want to tell me how many shots we had? Do you want to tell me how many times Wigan hit the woodwork? The team at the bottom of the league made us look awful, and we made them look impressive.

I felt more proud after the Spuds defeat than after the Wigan win. But maybe that's just me.
 
Predicted to get 7-10 points from our games against Arsenal, Liverpool, Swansea, Man U, Bolton and Chelsky. We are on track to do that.

Jol is the man for the job.

He needs to be more bold if you ask me of his team selection!
 
Bandit said:
Bidley

Hughes tried to get us playing a different brand of football, and he failed. It was only after Christmas, when the players reverted to the way they had played under Roy that we finally began to get some points on the board. Jol trying to get us to play a totally different style of football isn't going to be much good if we are playing in the Championship next year is it?
Click to expand...

So what do you suggest we do? Get Jol out and...? Get Roy in?

Bandit said:
I'm well aware that we BEAT Wigan, do you want to tell me how many shots we had? Do you want to tell me how many times Wigan hit the woodwork? The team at the bottom of the league made us look awful, and we made them look impressive.

I felt more proud after the Spuds defeat than after the Wigan win. But maybe that's just me.
Click to expand...

So did I.

So what about the games we played well in? The 6-0 battering of QPR? The draw with Man City? The Spuds game? The 4-1 hammering of Krakow? For every bad game we've had we've had a good one. It just depends how you want to spin it.
 
Madness

To be fair, we have only played one of those six games. We could easily end up with one point, or even 16 points.

If Jol selects an attacking formation and team selection against Liverpool and we really give it a good go, win or lose, I will state that I was hasty in my judgement. But after watching tonight's performance, is that really a likely outcome?
 
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