Also worth clarifying that we played most of 2/3 of the games those stats are based on without a proper 9 to set up in the box and make more of the cutbacks and crosses.
I think we need to do both to be honest. To help prevent/ slow the amount we concede, we need our FBs to play as such, not this nerdy inverted makeshift number ten nonsense because as Hudd has just touched on, the amount of recovery tackles we make likely leads to corners due to the direction of the tackle coming in. I also think Udogie and Porro’s positioning in these stupid inverted roles are negatively impacting the games of our forwards as they’re taking up the space where someone like Son can cut inside and rifle one in. Unless I’ve forgotten one, Son hasn’t scored a single pearler under Ange, he’d often have a goal of the season contender of his own making in every season. In terms of defending them, I hate with a pure fiery passion zonal marking. I’ve never understood the benefits to it. Get a man on each post, get your biggest lads marking the opposition’s biggest (yesterday in the first half, Maddison was circling around Ben White ) and leave just your speediest option up the pitch in case a counter opportunity arises. I’d also encourage Vicario to come for punches when and where possible, too many times he’s been rooted to his line.
I said similar yesterday when someone said Son is on the decline. For me he’s being stifled in the current system. I don’t want to see Udogie in positions where Son should be and I also don’t want to see Son play as a ST but both happens far too frequently. For me. Son is the only elite attacker the club has atm. The rest of them are bang average or worse.
Technically this isn't an issue if you have the right player in the middle, given Dortmund played with Marco Reus through the middle with this approach and it worked for them But that does also suggest we need to reconsider who the ersatz CF would be if injures/suspensions leave us without a proper No9 because Deki plays more like a No10 in that role, and of the current personnel I'd honestly suggest Johnson would be a better fit as he has that extra bit of pace and does have the ability to get a toe on the end of things in the box
The FBs are interesting. Everything I read about Ange’s Celtic was that they usually started flanking the 6 in midfield, then pushed up from there to overlap, or underlap, or create passing options for the 8s and wingers on their side. But both Destiny and Porro are pushing much higher much faster, and I think it’s hurting our buildup and our shape when we lose the ball. Destiny in particular needs to give more options for his teammates, he doesn’t always offer a progressive option when the CBs have the ball, and as you say his positioning is a little high and stifles Sonny.
Completely agree. I’ll be one of the first to call out on if I think a player is in decline but I absolutely do not think he is, not yet anyway. The fact that no one is playing well at the moment points to a system issue more than a personnel one. Whilst there one or two that genuinely aren’t good enough, there’s no way a large number of them are as bad as they currently look.
Interesting’s an interesting choice of word, as I find it infuriating . I think it’s an experiment that only really works in lesser quality leagues or if you simply have the best team. What adds a level of frustration for me as well is that Porro is by far the best crosser in our team and one of the best in the league, and whilst we know he can hit a pearler like Son can, I feel his best use of whipping in crosses from all angles for our CFs to attack would be far more beneficial than hoping for 2-3 long range goals a season.
I see no reason why it couldn’t work in the PL. Most of the elite teams build up in a 2/3 or a 3/2 with some combination of CBs, midfielders and FBs forming that shape to allow the team to beat a press. Our issue is that because the FBs go too high it turns into a 2/2 shape with Maddison having to drop deeper to help out the 6. This isn’t practical and leaves us incredibly vulnerable as well as taking one of our better creative players away from the final 3rd. This has been a feature of our games so far and I don’t like this development, though the positioning of the FBs has been consistent for so long now that I can only assume it’s intentional from Ange. Not a massive fan myself.
I don't have any way of analysing why we concede so many corners and, as it happens, too many goals in open play but I do have a theory. The point of the high line is to compress the opponents into a small space to make it hard for them to build and I think the fact that we have good possession stats suggests that this aspect is working. What causes us problems is losing the ball outside of their penalty area when we usually don't have enough cover so the opposition can run through our defence. The main thing that changed after the first 10 games last season was that Bissouma and Sarr were excellent at picking off those sort of attacks, but now no-one seems capable of doing it. I don't have an issue with where the full backs go because they usually take an opposing wide attacker with them so this limits the danger.
I don't really understand why people think we have issues in attack. We've scored 80 goals in 42 games under Ange despite losing our best ever attacker. I wasn't expecting anything near that. Conceding fewer is the thing to concentrate on, surely.
I thought that we played alright apart from our final ball, which was consistently ****e. Son and Solanke both failed when gifted absolutely golden chances by the opposition, too. My main issues with Postecoglou on the day were the subs. We didn't use our full allocation and our system didn't seem to make much sense near the end. Son is probably our most dangerous finisher and he was wide and deep, for some reason. We had Werner and Odobert on the pitch, so he should've been more central, surely? I don't think that I've seen nearly enough criticism of the officials, for what seems like the millionth game against this lot. The spent the whole international break bemoaning Rice's red card and it seemed to work. Gillett is ****ing **** and he decided to put that on full display, dishing out cards to us like confetti. Their goal was a foul and VAR did what it always seems to do in this country and ****ed it up.
i know you meant this partly tongue in cheek, but we can't under-estimate the wider impact of having a player like Kane on the pitch. Was he our best defender? Aside from his heading ability, not at all. Was he useful to our defence? Enormously. No opposition team will be daft enough to take too many risks or commit too many men forward with a player of his calibre lurking. Teams now play us with zero fear, because we are blessed with an attacking line-up that looks allergic to scoring goals.
One of the problems I saw yesterday, but equally in some other games, is that Sonny and Udogie don't seem to be on the same wavelength a lot of the time - hence them appearing to stymie each other. Particularly noticeable was the number of times that Udogie ran ahead of Son into space down the wing, but Son didn't even try and find him - opting to turn back and find Maddison whose LM position is also questionable...and he almost inevitably passed it sideways to Bentancur or back to Romero. That was two or three times when there would have been an opportunity for a cross from a decent position.
We might have differing definitions of the word, but Son isn't elite. Never has been. There's a very good reason he has never attracted serious interest from a bigger club. He's in the next percentile down from 'elite' imo.
Of course, no one is stupid enough to go toe-to-toe with us due to the intensity of our press. But they seem very, very relaxed most of the time. Even when we're putting teams under sustained pressure (cf. Leicester and Newcastle), the opposition goalkeeper is rarely troubled at all. So teams know that they just need to keep their shape, make sure their pacy wide players are in space, wait for a misplaced pass or good tackle, and away they go. It's too easy, too simple and we aren't making our opponents work nearly hard enough for the points they take off us.
This is a good post and I agree with it. However I am talking about the different perceptions between DH yourself and me and clearly you both are more interested in winning cups than I am. Of course I want Spurs to win everytime they play and the feeling watching that game yesterday is a downer I am sure most of us felt that. Anyway I take on board your comments about people seeing things differently what ever their age but I think it's valid to point out the different world that I grew up in.
Agree with virtually 100%, but I'd say that not only the final ball was missing throughout, but very often the 2nd to last. Solanke should have scored from that Arsenal-generated chance, absolutely, but apart from that he had **** all service. He worked hard, thought he was putting himself about well particularly in the first half, but he wasn't given another sniff of a chance by his own team. He's not a Kane - no kidding - who can drop deep and create chances for himself and others - he needs service - and neither the MF nor widemen provided that. And because of that general lack of creativity, leaving Bergvall warming the bench made no sense whatsoever.
He was also useful for our defence as he gave us additional aerial presence when defending set pieces Richy does also deserve credit as he does the same thing, but with him not on the pitch to defend set pieces guess what happened
This is generally the concern I have with players like him and Richarlison to be honest, in those moments where there’s a chance or half chance in a key moment, are they the players you really want in them? Not for me and it’s why I think we’ve really put ourselves in the ****ter spending so much on the pair. Solanke missed a hattrick of chances against Leicester too. I think it’s pretty telling that if we asked people to describe both of their best attributes, goal scoring probably comes around third or fourth in the list. Could we say that about Kane, Defoe, Keane, Pav, Berba etc? Not a chance. They all knew where the net was and slotted away more often than not when provided with the opportunities.
