We need to be patient DH and trying to be objective just after this game is not the best. I just don't want the negative vibe to take hold because it's very destructive.
The difference is Redknapp inherited a squad that contained three players who were or at least would go on to be world class. King, Modric and Bale. He then lucked out massively when we signed VDV for peanuts. He took over a team that was underperforming and his man management skills raised to more or less where it should have been. I look at our current players and I just don't see many underperforming. I think for many of them, 5th is the absolute limit of their ceiling. For others, even mid table is flattering.
Patience has to also be earned though, Spurf. I will judge every manager and player equally regardless of if I like them as a person (which I do with Ange). For me, we should be seeing signs of progression and improvement, even if micro. But we haven’t. Our first ten games under Ange were excellent, since then it’s been a mixed bag with more negatives than positives. Our defence is still terrible as a unit despite possessing four (five with Radu) very good defenders, our midfield are extremely ineffective and our forward line can’t hit a barn door nor create a genuine chance. All of our play is boring, very, very boring and also extremely predictable.
For some players, I agree. But for some - like Kulusevski, Bentancur, Bissouma etc., this is their third season at the club. How much longer do we have to wait for these players to show that they are the way forward?
I don’t see Ange as likeable like others do. I actually think he’s quite arrogant which is fine but not when you’re also deluded which I think he is with regards to his tactics. As most of you know I live in Scotland so saw a lot of him at Celtic. He did well up here but tbh any of us would win trophies with Celtic as they’ve got the biggest budget and best players. To say I was surprised when Spurs were linked with him was an understatement and I was even more shocked when he actually got the job. He’s late 50s and never managed at a high level before. His tactics are naive defensively and he got away with them at Celtic because of the superior level of players not because he’s a mastermind. I also don’t buy into the exciting football that we supposedly get either. All I see is full backs too far forward leaving the two centre backs constantly exposed at the back and cross after cross going in. That to me isn’t exciting or revolutionary football. For me I don’t see where the club improves in the short term because the majority of players Ange has signed are middle table players - Vicario, Solanke, Maddison, Brennan Johnson, Werner (he’s not even mid table level). Like DH says, the talented youngsters who are supposed to be the future aren’t even getting minutes off the bench atm. 44 points from 32 league games after spending hundreds of millions is a return which isn’t even close to being good enough.
Earned? Where do you think we are going DH? If you do not have patience then you will end up where you are; frustrated and destructive. I prefer to enjoy football, I really think this is an age thing. Different generations have different values. We are not going to meet on this DH because we come from different perceptions. Only one team wins the league, so all the others must be distraught? People who use their team as some kind of alter ego will always be frustrated. That's what makes the job of pro football management so difficult. I accept that Spurs are on a journey and trying to get better. Over my lifetime Spurs have been top, mid table, relegated, won FA Cups, Euro Cups, sometimes brilliant sometimes awful but most of the time trying to play exciting football. I think Ange has the right credentials but he needs some time. If we don't give him that time we start again and that really is boring.
I agree with this but the manager has signed a lot of these players so I have little sympathy for him. Vicario, Werner, Maddison, Brennan Johnson & Solanke are all Ange signings. None of them take Spurs closer to the next level and that’s on the manager.
I also want to enjoy football, Spurf, but I’m not enjoying watching us. Where do I think we’re going? At present on course for a midtable finish, if that. I’m gonna ignore the age comments - again - as I think it’s just a patronising point to try and make. I don’t expect Spurs to ever win the league, I do want to at least see us be competitive and ideally do so playing a style of football that makes you excited to switch on the tele or walk into the stadium. That is not the case with Spurs at the moment, we’re losing more than we’re winning and it's not as if the football is at least encouraging to where you see a corner being turned. It feels like before a ball is kicked we can all see what is going to happen: We’ll make 20-30 passes in and around the centre circle. We’ll then make a pass out wide. The wide player will then hit a sub-par cross that gets easily dealt with. We’ll then repeat this from minute 1 to minute 90+ in the match. At some point we’ll then concede a very avoidable goal (or goals), either from a set piece or where we’ve sent 95% of our players on a wild goose chase leaving just one or two defenders and the keeper severely exposed.
The system works imo...the amount of possession we have kind of proves that to me Big Ange's problem is he is working with Levy and Levy has never given his managers the full set, no 'project' has ever been completed and therefore neither will this one be. I believe Ange's system would smash it at City
Much of this is to do with being in the PL. In the past the 60s & 70s Spurs were able to buy players like Ardilles because we did it first (sign foreign stars) We signed players like Klinsman who were just past their greatest days but still top top players. Spurs are much richer since ENIC but so is everyone else. We cannot now compete with the very top clubs because football is global. The greatest Spurs team was all British players. Times have changed and Spurs have changed but we have not reached the goal yet. Maybe we never will, faced with that it is better IMO to enjoy the game by game and lower your expectations. Then we can smile when we beat City because it will be a huge surprise.
The age thing is all around you. It's not patronising . The world changes rapidly and people have different values. It's just a fact and explains the difference in views between our posters in many cases. I am not trying to denigrate your views by saying that I am giving full value to your view but it just comes from a different place. My world is going your's is still there but will go in turn it's just how it all works.
The main issue is managers need to adapt their system, and with our present personnel we can't adapt to teams packing the middle of defence as the only player we have who can potentially bully their way through parked buses is Bissouma - and he plays deepest of our midfielders I keep circling back to wondering how the window would have panned out if Richy left, because if he left you have to assume we would have brought in a more physical CF who would be a menace in the air considering that was the fallback option for his tactics at Celtic, because while Solanke and Richy can certainly harass the ball off defenders we could certainly do with a forward who just bulldozes through them
Corithian Casuals used to leave their goal empty (no goalkeeper) if they conceded a penalty because they thought it was a disgrace to cause a penalty. Batsmen use to walk without waiting for the umpire to give them out. Pro fouls in football were a rarity. This is not the world you grew up in. We used to say in England games are not about winning they are about taking part. That's all gone now it's all about winning. All these things are giving different perspectives to the game depending on when you grew up.
In other news, Brennan Johnson has deactivated his Instagram. Again Hey, can our fans try not being ****s for once?
Fans of the same age can and do have different opinions. I’m sure there are people your age that think different to you and aren’t enjoying Spurs at the moment. Just as there as people my age that think different to me and think Ange is the man. One of the good things about football is how we can watch the same thing but see it differently. I think that’s to be celebrated and probably why forums like this get as much traffic as they do.
And don't forget he also had Lennon, Crouch and Benny , not to mention Pav. All were top, top players for us (some more often than others I have to admit!). And how we could do with an onfield leader like Gallas right now!
If this is correct, he is the wrong man for the job and we should have gone for someone more pragmatic, able to make a whole that is greater than the sum of it's parts. Our three most successful PL era managers had this in common. BMJ, Harry and Poch (pre and after 16/17-17/18) achieved what they did because they forged teams. I look at us now and I see a collection of individuals who often don't look like they've played together before. I have no idea nor is there any reason why communication across the back line is as poor as it is, and I should add: poorest between Porro and Romero, who have played together for over a year and a half.
Well Ange has guaranteed that you will win a trophy this season as he always does in 2nd season . Mind you he also had a dig at DH and King for their ridiculous narrative that he doesn't bother with set piece defending
