Happy to listen where it's warranted. Not remotely interested the views of anyone who is involved in - or equivocates for - violent, racist disorder.
I suppose that depends on whether you believe that's fantasy or reality ... ... I don't believe the general public, here, would ever do that as they're too well off. Almost all of them are criminals. If you want to claim the police only exist because of our consent you can't possibly deny it ... ... there's no 'having your cake and eating it' option. 'Riotous Assembly' Sentence of up to 5 years if found guilty Definition: A group of 12 or more people who gather unlawfully and cause a disturbance of the peace. Example: A group of people gather in the streets, shouting and throwing objects at buildings and cars. The police arrive and arrest them for riotous assembly.
What are the chances it'll be a first offence for any of them Reality and hangovers will be kicking in now ... ... that's a month sweating before they have to go to court. In the meantime the rest of us will be at graft, paying our bills and watching the Lads. Life is as complicated as you choose to make it ... ... and it's complicated enough without us interfering
It would have been better if they had fast tracked it and gave them a minimum of 5 years each. I believe the government have missed a trick there. Who knows how much damage will be done before they are sentenced.
In reality you can't, on the internet anything seems possible which is how people are radicalised in one way or another. Much of our society is built on nothing but our collective goodwill and it holds us together. People believe a piece of paper is really worth fifty pounds, swear on bibles to tell the truth and respect their neighbours ... ... the alternative may be more logical and righteous but the majority can't be arsed with it. We have places to go, people to see, matches to attend and acts of minor decency to carry out. I've just offered the use of my van to a local group setting up some kind of drop-in centre who appealed for sofas, shelving, etc. I've no idea wtf it is but noticed it, on a local facebook group, and offered. That's just everyday life, for me and most people, getting on with things and being decent with folk, then you die.
I asked the question because I am not sure @alcoauth understands policing by consent. Whilst our police do police by consent, no individual can withdraw their consent from policing or the law. Our laws are either made in parliament or in the case of Common Law by the judiciary. The police apply those laws with the consent of the people rather than by fear. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/policing-by-consent/definition-of-policing-by-consent
Kicking a copper in the balls then telling him you're withdrawing consent to police you may not stand up ... ... although I'm no legal expert so I may be incorrect
I’m really good friends with a Bishops wife, no not that way. She believes if you are kind to people and try to do good things you don’t need to believe in god, She believes that is Gods work passing through you anyway wether you like it or not.
That example is hypothetical obviously, we do not have 100% agreement on anythign ever, but incrementally imagine other figures against the current policing authorities. Imagine 5% Imagine 10% Imagine 52% (Brexit) etc If we're talking about revoking consent to be policed by the current policing authorities by a large collective, it's absolutely possible and has precedence globally.
Yes, Camden NJ is one example in the US during the BLM riots, there was several others across the country also. They stepped down due to pressure from the locals, I believe a new force has since been re established in that area, as you would expect. If things get bad, people will revoke consent in their towns, how that works practically is a senior official resigns and the force is disbanded then re established with a new force and bureaucracy that the collective approves of, possibly ingratiating members of the public into key positions.
Perhaps the police can step down and let the Punks run things, which is just as likely imo ... ... they certainly seemed to calm down the protesters in Blackpool. https://x.com/i/status/1819880615853859318
I don't think America polices by consent although the Peelian Principles did inform their community policing. In addition, each state is governed differently, so it's stretching it to compare UK policing with that in the USA. Policing by Consent refers to the power of the police to apply the law with the common consent of the public. So everyone who reports a crime, every victim of crime whose case is investigated by police, every person who submits an evidence statement, every person who obeys the law and every person who is subject to the criminal process are consenting to police applying the law. However, purely theoretically, and I'm sure this is horrendously over-simplified - you could enter politics, gain public support and become an MP, then become leader of your political party, then win a general election and become prime minister, then convince the sovereign to remove the police's powers, and enjoy the anarchy while it lasts.
If these events continue I think we'll see the police defeated in many of the towns where the conflict occurs. The officers, bless their souls, will become demoralised, weary, have conflicting political views as things escalate and will wonder if their 28k salary justifies what is happening to them. When the moment presents itself, people will appeal to them, "we don't want to do this, but we have no other recourse" etc.
