I just read the racist scum who rioted in Liverpool burnt down a library. ****ing scum don’t give a **** about children’s futures.
Deep breath... When all this madness is done (and it will be done, once it rains or something daft like that), there is some consideration that needs to be made as to why (over and above the twats like Tate and Robinson) people are feeling like this. It's easy to dismiss all concerns by wrapping them up in a "far right" blanket, but to do so would be foolish to the extreme. These people are dreadful, awful, spoiling for a ruck twats, of that there's no doubt. They should be met with the full force of the law. But... Why are they feeling like this? And is there a kernel of truth behind those feelings. And how do we address them. Because address them we should, or we'll end up like the US right now, where there's a group of haughty "we're in the right, and won't brook any argument" liberals, and a seething mass of discontented people "on the other side". The truth of the matter is, and it's something that these people aren't adequately able to vocalise (which is another part of the issue), is that there *is* an issue with immigration right now. And it's not racist to point that out. I hesitate to say "an issue with immigration", because the issue is actually with integration, but they go hand in hand. What needs addressing is that there is (no matter how much we try and pretend that there isn't, and how much we try and project our own "good" values) a genuine problem with introducing a group of people into the country who have a distinctly different culture and values system to that which we have here. It's not a problem in itself, if it wasn't for the fact that there isn't any wish to take on or even integrate with our culture/values system within a proportion of that population. In fact, it's quite the opposite - the wish is to bring about a change in our values system to theirs. It's written in their holy texts (sorry, yes I am talking about the Muslim population, and we shouldn't be afraid to say that either) that the goal is to bring about widespread change and adherence to Islam. I know all that sounds uncomfortable (because of our own values), but until we recognise that as a truth, and start putting in sensible strategies to either integrate people properly in a way that accepts our culture and value system as the way things are done here, and if you want to be here you need to sign up to that (as the Danes have done) or we put some kind of systems in place that significantly reduce our intake until such time as if and when we have a process to manage it. I'm absolutely a liberal in the vast majority of of my life, but it's frustrating that people seem terribly avoidant when it comes to this. And until we address this fact, this situation (from both the right wing thuggery and the increased incidents of stabbings/Rotherham stuff etc) will continue and only get worse. (Yes, of course I know that the Southport horror isn't directly because of this - that instance to me highlights the desperate need for more robust mental healthcare - but unfortunately it was the straw that at least tickled the camel's back).
Sadly appropriate, and tells you everything you need to know about these lowlifes. The Nazis burned books too of course, before they started burning people.
I would have been more likely to agree with you a week ago. This last week has shown that a certain select group with single digit IQs have been hiding under the surface since the 80s. Most of society has moved on and these people are still dragging their knuckles through society. The vast majority of muslims want to do well and integrate. Culturally they exhibit a strong desire for their sons and daughters to become doctors or lawyers or architects. Pakistanis do worse than any of the other subcontinental asians in exams but still better than white British people. And that is the true issue here. People who move countries are by their nature aspirational. Too many British people feel they cannot achieve anything. 15 years of Tory austerity has reinforced this as too many of the schemes which existed to help young people succeed have been removed. Low paid jobs have been more stagnant than high paid jobs. Rents have quadrupled in the last 20 years while wages have barely risen. Brexit means that most immigrants now look different. Millions of white Europeans have left and been replaced with those who look other and culturally are more other. The British have been manipulated - by the press, by the Brexit campaigners, and by outside forces - to believe that self-destructive actions will return us to an imagined, nostalgic past. There are valid concerns about immigrants - and I have made the same points you have. I also worry about cultural change and the fact this tends to impact working class communities more than the middle class. However, the undercurrent of racism and misogyny seeping out of social media is not something we will fix by educating foreigners. It will only come by giving ordinary people back hope they can be something. When we see the stats for white British people succeeding in education coming off the bottom of the league tables (only black and gypsy ethnicities are lower), we will see this hatred die away.
If and when thngs simmer down there is hope if we take a leaf out of Detroit's book. For decades, that city was in economic decline with the loss of jobs, rising crime rates and so on culminating when the city declared itself bankrupt. I think the people of Detroit took a look at themselves and decided that only they could help the recovery. Now there are more start-ups, investment into the city has increased while crime, particulary homicides has dropped.
Oh I absolutely agree with you that there are systemic problems at play, and there were a lot of people involved in the recent unrest that were there for nefarious reasons. I also totally agree that we need educational reform and opportunity for the young. My concern with your post is that it's a bit too easy (and incorrect) to frame this as a British problem, with British roots. We're seeing the same issues across mainland Europe in places like France, Germany and most chillingly Sweden. I'd also take issue with the second part of your suggestion that "the vast majority of muslims want to do well and integrate". I agree, they want to do well, but there's a large number that have no interest in taking on the values and cultures of the countries they are emigrating to, and want to transpose their own values and culture across. That's where the issues lie (along with the ones you list), and where we create a diaspora of people in places like Rotherham, Leicester etc which is problematic. We've always had the same type of issues - take Brixton and the West Indian communities (I won't use the word ghettos) in the 80s. That, as generations passed, became diluted and the populations integrated as father became son etc. I have a (probably forlorn) hope that the same thing will happen with these new groups. However, the difference here is that it's part of the creed of Islam that the ultimate goal is to take over, transpose that value system and rule, and to question or criticise that is haram in Islamic law. (Sorry, it feels like I'm repeating myself a bit there, but the current situation bothers me, and I struggle to realistically see how it improves).
And Christians would never have believed that would they?! We need to kill this lie that all Muslims are Fundamentalists It creates the very conditions that breed Fundamentalists
Spot on. Islam, though it has it’s problems as all societies, religions and cultures do, is not the reason Muslims are being targeted by the same people who targeted Jews 100 years ago. Ignorance, hate and fear are the reasons for that.
Of course they aren’t. Nobody is suggesting that, least of all me. But by it’s very essence, Islam does lend itself to more fundamentalist leanings, as one of its steadfast rules is that it cannot be questioned or criticised. Christianity, for all its faults, encourages doubt and questioning.
We need to kill the lie that everyone concerned with immigration is a far right thug too. That also creates the conditions to push people toward extremism. It's exactly the same as much a people want to pretend it isn't.
You're right, and we risk mitigating the thuggery by saying "it's applling, BUT we can understand why its happening" There is no realistic connection and the issues of a multi-ethnic society need to be dealt with politically and in communities Effective Liberal Democracy undermines Fundamentalism by providing better opportunities
Now it does It didn't used to and still doesn't in some places - see the Christian Right in the US All Muslims aren't Fundamentalists, nor are all Christions or Jews etc
I hope you didn't think I was saying that, these guys are just thugs, immigration is a complex issue that we all need to TALK about I'm really not sure ANYONE is suggesting these people are the anti-immigaration mainstream
In an ideal world it does, yes. And I hope beyond hope that is the case and that we can somehow get to that point. The issue, as I've said, is to do with integration and assimilation. To give a rubbish metaphor - if you're forced to take someone into your house, you expect your house rules to be adhered to. If that person craps on the floor, you'd be inclined to say "please don't do that, we crap in the toilet here". If they continue to crap on the floor, and then also say "well where I'm from, we crap on the floor. I'm not going to crap in the toilet, and what's more, I'd like you to learn to crap on the floor", well there's going to be an issue.
