Another nail in Wengers footballing coffin?

Last nights result is another step backwards for AW and the team.

The question is how much poorer can we get and how long Wenger can last.

 

I don't agree with a negative response to last night. I thought our 'reserves' played really well.
We just lacked that striker's touch. I'm no fan of Wenger's( mistakes over the last few years).

 

Having players out of position with the frequency at which Arsene does baffles me. I'm no football manager, not by a loooong mile but I fear his ideas are no longer as strong as they once were. It's no slur. It's natural progression unless one happens to be a SAF, not that I like the man from the north you understand. I just wish Arsene wasn't so stubborn. In a way it's slight easy for him. He can walk away anytime between now and the end of 2014. We will still be here and thus far on the basis of our record, going nowhere or not very far.

 

Your completely wrong.

If you watched the game it was clear we where the better side despite being reserves vs superstars. They managed a goal at the end of the game after a lack of concentration for just a moment from the Arsenal boys. The young players showed they have some real ability and even Chamakh had a decent game despite not scoring.

It's the League Cup and really doesn't matter that much. Good for some of the guys to get playing time.

 

Typical IAWT attitude. Burying your head in the sand won't make our decline go away. It shows the gulf that has opened up between us and Citeh, United
(8-2), and the Spuds.

It's just not acceptable.

 

I dare say we need Top 4 and a trophy to put things right this year. So now we're left in 3 competitions. We can forget about the league title, that's for sure ( sadly ). The FA Cup is dependent on who is left standing. I would like to think that all our protagonists take themselves out of the CL but that seems unlikely but you never know. So that leaves Top 4. We really have to get that if nothing else. Anything less just doesn't bear thinking about.

 

The only realistic trophy prospect left is the FA Cup now and i wouldn't be too hopeful about that. Top 4 is not looking achievable unless wem spend big in January.

Much as i would like to see us win something the omens are not good this year and i think the odds are stacked against Wenger.

 

The odds my friend should IMHO be stacked against Gazidis, the board and Stan too. They are keeping us from winning anything.

 

Wow. Just wow. Such pessimists.

We had players like Park who have only got a couple of games for us. Chamakh who hasn't had a start in ages. Our young players hoping to push for first team football etc...

VS

Players like Aguero, Dzeko, Nasri - all costing £25million+ and who would all get first team football at pretty much any club in the league.

And we only lost 1-0 to a late goal from a lapse in concentration in a game where we looked the better team.

Some of the players put in fantastic performances and we should be very pleased with our young players who will be working hard to give competition to the first team.

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As for top 4 not looking achievable unless we spend big i think your wrong again. Top 4 looks very possible with only 3 points between us and 4th spot. Newcastle will drop points no doubt, Chelsea re looking a shambles at the moment and Liverpool are too inconsistent and will fall off. Imo Arsenal are in a strong position to push on for the top 4 and i fulyl expect us to get it although it will be very tight at the top. Your acting as if we are miles behind top 4 when in reality there is a games difference in it.

I'm not saying it will be easy for top 4 but it's not nearly as dire a situation as you are making out.

Overall last night was a positive performance and we look in a good position overall as a club at the moment.

 

I agree with you in that we did play well against an expensively assembled team. But the BIG however is, when RVP gets injured, 4th position will be VERY difficult to achieve then......

If we don't buy a striker this January (most likely), then Wenger needs to try Walcott up front in a central position. We DO NOT seem to have any contigency plans in case RVP gets injured!!!!

 

I am usually negative but our defence and midfield were awesome last night. Only the two strikers let us down.

We need a striker in January, that is the only missing piece of the puzzle. But I don't hold much hope of getting one!!!

 

@Jayram

Yes we are not the same team we 6 years ago. But it's not a slow degradation of our club but ratehr improving competition. Also the negative fans seem to fail to realise that you have to adapt your expectations based on the situation.

This season getting top 4 and having a decent run in the CL would be enough to class it as a decent season imo.

Also let's not forget that in the baron run we have come clsoe in points to the title and got to more than oen final. So we where a few decisions or a couple of kicks of a ball away from having a pretty good record over the last 6 years. It's not like we just completely feel from grace.

We are still in 3 competitions. The FA Cup will depend on who we draw is it progresses and then we will see at the latter stages how the competition pans out - but considering stoek got to the final last season it is well within reason to think we have a chance at that trophy. The CL is a funny one but again it depends on the draw. We are top of our group so will have "easier" opponents in the next round and then again it depends on what happens in the other games and how the draw goes. I'd be confident for example if we end up against a team like Chelsea in the QF's or one of the teams who are less often still in the competition by that stage. And that would leave us only 3 games away from the trophy. So again, it's not out of reach and we actualy have a very good first team when everyone is fit.

The league is most probably out of reach but top is well within our grasp and if you look over the next couple of games Chelsea play Newcastle and City so either Chelsea or Newcastle or both are likely to drop points. That closes things up very tight and gives us a chance to jump up into the top 4 or very close to it. It's also still early in the season and alot can change.

People just need to be a little more optimistic - rather than just "everythign is ****, the team is ****, the manager is ****, we are gonna be relegated unless we spend £300 million!!!?"

 

Being optimistic is very difficult when we have a manager who continually shoots himself in the foot with poor team selection, tactics and bargain basements buys which turn out to be rubbish eg Squillaci, Chamakh et al.

Some of us just being realistic about our chances this year, its only november and yet we are out of one chance of a trophy already.

The steady decline Wenger has led is in to is just not acceptable.

 

Exactly well said.

 

I am not sure I agree that Spurs and Liverpool have gone past us. The current Liverpool team reminds me a lot of the team that came so close to winning the league a few years ago (albeit not nearly as strong). By this I mean that they raise their game against better opposition but are inconsistent against the lesser lights of the league. This tendency will ultimately cost them a top 4 position in my view.

Spurs have been playing well, but I suspect the good run won't last. This is based purely on experience from past seasons and a gut feeling of mine. I will go out on a limb and predict the top 4 come the end of the season will be the two manchester clubs and the two north london clubs, (I will not venture to guess what the exact positions will be though)

It deserves to be mentioned again that although Arsenal endured their worst start ever to a premier league season we are at present only 3 points off 4th place. With most of the teams above us playing each other in upcoming weeks this small gap could quickly disappear. I think that come the dec 31st game against QPR Arsenal will find themselves back in the top 4, if not sooner.

While everyone has the right to be critical of the way Arsenal operate I do not find it helpful or constructive to simply fire off insults and slurs at the team and management (some people are more guilty of this than others). Last night I saw an Arsenal team of mostly reserve and fringe players play damn well against probably the best "second team" I have ever seen. If the rest of the squad can show that desire and fight for the rest of the season I will be satisfied wherever we end up.

Many people talk of how expectations have been lowered at Arsenal, I suggest that these people have expectations that are far too high. My only expectation from any Arsenal team is that they fight hard each and every game to win, as long as they do this I will be happy come the end of the season. This team has shown that fight in the past few months (moreso, in my opinion, than the arguably more talented arsenal squads of recent years) Considering this, I think the team has done a great job to raise itself from the depressing lows of 17th place in early September and will continue to do so until may. I am quite optimistic to be honest about the rest of this season.

Also, a round of applause for all the fans at the emirates last night. Great atmosphere and you could tell the team reacted to it. More of the same please, I will be doing my part.

 

I would love for us to win trophies as well, but it is definitely not the only marker by which I judge the team. I think you are doing a disservice to Arsenal by implying that the team doesn't have a desire to win trophies. I was at wembley for the Carling cup final last season and you could easily tell how crushed the players were for falling short. I suspect this current team, thanks to the addition of of some canny experienced players will make us proud either this season or next.

You may not find Arsenal's recovery from 17th place praise worthy, but I do. I remember when Liverpool crashed out of the top 4 two seasons ago and to this day have never really looked as though they have what it takes to get back to the top. This Arsenal team does have the look of a team that can recover top 4 status after a disastrous start. Credit where it is due.

Maybe my optimism stems from the fact that I rarely read the sport pages in the newspapers. I made this choice a few seasons ago and now read only the occassional blog. I find myself in a much happier place and more supportive of the team. Some may call it confirmation bias, but I feel that ignorance to the media's "informed opinion" truly is bliss (at least when it comes to a subjectve, emotional subject like sport).

 

Arsenal football club and Wenger have not been in decline over the last 6 years. The only change is that the two lottery winners chelski and City have bought 2 of the places in the top 4 with Arab and Russian cash. That means with United's huge resources (that they have always had) we are only really competing for 4th each year. its nothing to do with the decline of Arsenal.

With the huge inflation of transfer prices that City and Chelski have created for top players this is what has caused the position we are now in. That coupled with the fact that Uefa seem happy to let the likes of City buy countless players at huge prices and then loan them out (further influencing league positions) is the problem. I believe they mentioned in the commentary last night that City currenty have 25 players out on loan! And they are not young players they are established internationals.

 

Glad to see we can find some common ground.

I do agree that the Arsenal squads of the past few years have lacked the ability to fight when things got tough or sometimes would show up to a game expecting a win thus not playing to their potential. I do not see this in the current squad. They seem to fight harder (I suspect last season we may have lost saturdays match against fulham) and appear more focused. Whether this is a function of the new experienced players, a change brought around in training by Wenger or a combination of multiple factors, I like what I see. Long may it continue.

 

Just bringing it back to the OP's original assertion. I find it slighty incredulous that Wenger can be criticised for the performance last night. We played really well and several players had outstanding games. We lacked the killer touch and we got caught on a sucker punch on the counter - Wenger said that it was a bit niave of the team. But overall, I think he set the team up very well indeed.

I think we needed to go for a win last night, and we were pushing for that winner when the counter attack goal came. I just feel that some people would be criticising Wenger either way, if he'd played more defensively he'd be accused of lacking ambition, if he played more attacking he'd be accused of throwing the game away.

You can't have it both ways, we went for the win (the right decision in my opinion) and it didn't work out. On another night - Oxo, Park and Chamakh's chances might have gone in - we'd have won 3-1 and those who are criticising Wenger would be lavishing praise on him.

 

Even if we'd have won by 3 goals, you'd have the usual suspects criticising Wenger / the board / the medics / the coaches etc.