Don’t think you can question his man management skills. As you say he’s got rid of the club rivalries that were there during the ‘golden generation’ times and formed a squad that are together. There’s no doubting that international football management is very very different to club management and that togetherness goes a long way - however where he’s lacking is massively tactically. Both in getting a system and style of play and team selection. And although togetherness will get you so far, when it comes to the big games - you need a manager that is tactically aware.
So anyway I won this outright cos Spain won. The other awards for being good guesses are interesting and all that but you can revolute my winnings to the lfc foundation thanks.
All pools work the same way. Pick teams winner of tournament = winner. Donate your fiver to lfc foundation lads.
Well done Spain. The game was a lot closer than I'd have thought but the biggest difference for me was watching a team (Spain) versus a collection of individuals (England). Spain were a joy to watch whereas England were so frustrating. If, as has been said, Southgate has brought a team spirit back to the team, which I don't fully agree with, then they should be playing like a team. Spain's flow and fluidity and knowing where each other are, is a whole level above.
Difference between playing like a team, a team that gets on well behind the scenes. Southgate seems to have got the camp happy and no club rivalries that existed in the past. But doesn’t mean he’s got them playing like a team because tactically he’s not a very good manager. As shown by his previous exploits of when he’s actually sat down and trained a team in his own style they got relegated from the prem.
So you're saying the same as me: a team behind the scenes but not on the pitch. You're going to have to explain the club rivalries bit. I have to admit I rarely watch England play. I did this tournament because I had them in the sweep but I'm not aware of any times England players didn't get on together while playing for the national team. Generally, rivalries are put on one side until the league starts up again. How did Southgate change that?
Depends on definition of team on the pitch. I think they were all in it together, playing for each other etc, but I don’t think they had a system and structure coached into them in the time they were together (evidence by Kane saying early doors they weren’t sure as a team when they should be pressing). And you need to just go have a look at quotes from the mid 2000’s. Was well documented that when we had the previous golden generation of gerrard lampard Terry scholes Ferdinand beckham - that they never got on a as a team. They all sat with their own club mates during internationals. That by most accounts isn’t what happens now from media close to the camp abs players themselves. Much more of a mix with everyone now. https://www.espn.co.uk/football/sto...tion-were-killed-club-rivalries-rio-ferdinand https://talksport.com/football/9073...y-rooney-southgate-euro-2020-darren-bent/amp/
Teams reflect their manager in many ways. Southgate is a nice enough bloke so he's probably engendered a good sense of camaraderie amongst the team. However, that team also reflects his overly cautious character, and that's his and their downfall. That, and as others have said, no great tactical nous. That squad of players should have completely dominated most of the teams they've faced in this tournament and breezed their way to the final, given the very fortunate draw. Instead they've just had to grind out results time and time again against opposition theoretically far inferior to them. It's been painful to watch a group of extremely talented players seemingly afraid to express themselves. So, a reflection of their manager - cautious and reserved.
Thanks for posting the links. If you don't follow England, which I don't, it's not something you're aware of. It's interesting that it was the 'Gerrard generation' talking about not getting too involved with each other in between games off the pitch because he said something similar at club level when he said that the English lads chose to sit together and the Spanish lads (of which there was a good number at the time) chose to sit together and didn't mix. Seeing as all the Spaniards spoke good English, it couldn't have been a language barrier. Maybe that one cohort of players including those of other teams Ferdinand and Lampard etc. behaved in a way that wasn't seen before or since. If Southgate has been unique in fostering a good spirit off the field then at least he has done some good.
It was mainly the Man Utd players. They went on the pitch with the mentality that the opposition were their mortal enemy, the Roy Keane effect of you will. They carried that into the England camp. Ironically, the player that went against the trend was Wayne Rooney.
I think there was a certain swagger amongst the utd players when Fergie was in charge. As I've said before and saint has also said in this conversation, the players reflect the manager. Risk averse Southgate has produced risk averse England players. 'I'm the dog's doodahs',Fergie, produced players with the same mindset. Interesting that Rooney didn't seem to fit into the mold in quite the same way but there's a reason we say we're scouse, not English
I genuinely think thst there's not actually a huge difference between England's results in the past and this. Yes England have got a couple decent draws and caught a couple sides at a low ebb (Germany euro 2021) but prior England sides lost in qfs and last 16s on pens before. England were a minute from going out in the last 16 here too. It's all fine talking about spirit and togetherness but let's call a spade a spade here. It was a dire watch and bullshit football. When you lose playing like that it really isn't worth it. Losing playing attacking positive football at least males it enjoyable like euro 1996. Everyone refers back to that tournament for that reason Quite frankly **** the fact they were gallant losers close to tje big prize. Thry were still always losers and bored the **** of of everyone watching 47 mins the shackles came off again for the 4th match running and immediately they equalised they went right back on when it was there for a team to push for. Imo England have absolutely thrown both euros away through being negative ****bags. Simple really.
