I don't think anyone believes Southgate to be an absolutely elite manager, but it's when people refuse to give him any credit at all and say we win "despite" him that I find to be ridiculous. I've been frustrated with us at time in this tournament but if people are to criticise Southgate for the selection or way we play, then you also have to give him credit for effecting the game with substitutes. People seem to believe that he restricts players completely and then if someone does well it's because they're a great player or ignored him. He changed the system yesterday to get both Bellingham and Foden in their preferred positions, but people just start moaning about the next problem. He gave Saka complete freedom to get high on the right, knowing that when they needed to Trippier or Rice could drop to make it a back 4. Then when we went behind (unfortunately in my opinion), he made several attacking subs to change the game. Some will say he was "forced" to but that's just daft. He reacted to what was happening on the pitch. If he has made subs 20 minutes earlier you could argue he was forced to because we weren't ahead. He's a pragmatic manager and that's not what people want. But I also think some have been carried away by the Premier League and what Spain did in international football a decade or so ago. Someone like Guardiola drills players day after day to the absolute finest detail. Foden plays with Bellingham 5 times a year. It's never going to be the same relationship as he has with De Bruyne etc or at least not for a few years.
Spot on mate. He isnt Pep, or Klopp and we wouldnt attract a coach of the real elite level because we dont pay the salary. What he has done is be more successful than recent English coaches in terms progressing the team to the business end of tournaments. He and Deschamps seem to be cut from a very similar cloth in that they see a balanced and pragmatic approach is the way to give yourself a way to win a tournament. The difference is Deschamps has a thicker skin and Gareth can let the personal stuff upset him, in private anyway. The idiots who threw beer at him are just that, idiots. I have met and spoke to him a few times at St Georges, he is nice fella, quite relaxed and very calm and has a smile for everyone. I am told he is a really intense thinker about the game and the tactical side of it. I thought his selection last night showed that, as did his subs. The three subs will have been planned as the ones he had in mind to change the game, when he felt he needed to. I thought we had control of the game territorially for 55 minutes then the swiss got on top. I would have made a couple of changes sooner than him, but my guess is he wanted Shaw on to help change the balance of the side if Palmer was coming on his wrong side and he waited to ensure Shaw didnt end up playing too long. International football, in Europe certainly, has changed dramatically over the last 6-8 years. There are no easy games anymore, not in these tournaments. Sides are full of players from the top leagues. They are elite level players. That Swiss team last night had players from Serie A, Prem, Bundesliga, Ligue 1 all the way through it. These players play for top teams in top competitions. We were always going to be closely matched in my opinion. Teams simply dont setup to let you play how you might want to. They are doing everything they can to stop you and enforce their style on you. It is the highest level of football there is, and it is high pressure. Southgate will go after this tournament. It seems like he wont be remembered well. That is a shame, for a man who has done so much for our standing in the game. He took over after the disgrace of Allardyce, when the plan was for 2 more years at u21 before he was ready. Ironically Allardyce only game was against Slovakia where we needed an injury time goal to beat them. I doubt fans will be blown away by the next man in the hotseat, but maybe a change will be good for them and for Southgate. I think we will see him manage a top team on the continent next, where he is respected more for turning the England ship around.
I’m happy to give Southgate some credit for last night, and for his overall job. The changes after they scored, they were reactive at always but they worked and they got the job done. We remain in the Tournament and that’s all that matters essentially, France have been just as bad, if not worse. On the flip, gauging it by France, Italy etc being poor isn’t right. The team was shirt back end of qualifying and through the warm up games. This is the headrest and most competitive tournament in international football. Southgate has contributed. Bringing the link between the u21 and first team was a great bit of work, and one I will always appreciate. Having a ball dominant set of players who like to move the ball quick, and unbalancing the side in such a way we have to cut inside or cut back and lose momentum, that’s on him. I will stop short of saying ‘in spite of him’ as I agree that is a bit unfair, I will say that little he has done has taken us to the semi finals. Jude individual brilliance and then the absolute deadeye quality we had on the pens is not a managerial master stroke. I will always credit him for maintaining a level of class, but even if we win this tournament it’s time for a progressive and modern manager to work with this squad of utterly incredible individuals. He will go with my respect at the end of this tournament, indeed with some admiration if we bring it home. I don’t like him as England manager, but that’s in part because the players he helped nurture through the u21s became a little too hot for him to handle. There is no shame in that. I genuinely believe a Potter wins us a World Cup playing attacking, touch football the world would be impressed with. Southgate could do a very good job in a foreign league, maybe Spain where slower paced. Final word. Pickford. Forever one us us, and forever the pride we get from seeing him so magnificently stand up for the country. He loves wearing that shirt.
Not knocking his record in tounaments but fk me the football is and has been so boring for a long time. We have a fantastic squad of players there who should be winning games easier than scraping through in my opinion. Its also his loyalty to some players. I hate knocking anyone but lets face facts Kane has been a shadow of himself in this tournament so should he have been picked. In the early round we had already qualified so why oh why wasnt Toney or Watkins given a run out and if necessary have Kane on the bench? Believe me I want us to win this tournament not only for ourselves the players AND the manager so he can resign on a high but I wont lose any sleep when he does go.
Anyway, I am absolutely buzzing this morning. Another tournament where we are right in it at the business end. A team who doesnt seem to know how to lose. Probably the best penalty taking team left in the tournament. A game against the Dutch, just cannot wait for the sea of Orange and White, the banter, the songs, the beer, the laughs and the tension. Oh aye, and I am going back out there for this one. A bit like Gareth, I am not a great planner , I just got really lucky to meet a mate of a mate in a pub who offered me a spare and now he has sorted me another ticket. I am as lucky as Keir Starmer
And another thing. How much did everyone love the Saka penalty. That smile after. He took some crap after missing one and I hope now he revels in the joy. The lad was excellent last night, as he usually is, but that penalty into the side netting was a great moment for him and any England fan.
Fell mate, what things do you see in Southgate's coaching that a lot of people miss? I get fixated on certain patterns of play and say, well, he should be doing x y or z instead. There will be tons of other stuff that I don't see.
Saka has been consistently England's best player since he made his debut. I don't think he gets much stick in general, but I do think people often look beyond him to whoever is the new star. We've moved him into 3 positions so far this tournament to cover a weakness or to accommodate other stars and he still shines as brightly as any of them. He's my favourite England player by a distance.
I just don't know how some of you lads can defend Southgate. Last night he was forced to react with his subs after going behind, you could see for 15 minutes before they scored that a Swiss goal was on the cards and he just sat on his hands. We can't expect Bellingham and Saka to come up with worldies to get us out the **** every game. Of course I want England to win the competition, but I want to win it in style and not by creeping in through the back door. Alf Ramsey won in 66 by playing on the front foot. He has to go whether we win it or not, these talented players need a manager who'll let them play.
You say he was forced to react, but he deserves credit for impacting the game with his subs. He gave Foden and Bellingham complete freedom last night. How is it you thought he stopped them from playing? Extra time showed what playing on the front foot looks like - exciting, but also leaving us wide open to counter attacks. Switzerland had better chances when we had more attacking players on the pitch than they did for the first 75 minutes. It's not cut and dry either way, I think you have some valid points - he should have made changes earlier in my opinion. But I like to be even handed. If I'm going to criticise what he gets wrong, I'll also give credit when he gets it right. A lot of people seem to think the players are responsible for every win and Southgate responsibl for every loss. It's far too simplistic.
Fair enough but how can you credit him when he was forced to make those changes, a good manager must have seen his players needed help BEFORE the Swiss scored, and he did nowt, like I say we aren't going to come up with outstanding goals every game, football's not like that. The first time I've seen him crack a smile was after the penalty shoot out, he just doesn't do it for me and never has.
He wasn't forced to make "those" changes. He could have kept it the same, he could have brought on Watkins, Bowen, Gallagher, Gordon etc... He made the right changes. I'm not giving him credit for being pro-active (because he wasn't), but I am giving him credit for reacting in the correct way. In another game, Kane's header goes in against Slovakia, one of Rice's shots from outside of the area goes in during the last 2 games, Mainoo's shot doesn't get blocked by a world class tackle from Xhaka, Foden manages his run a little better and stays onside against Slovenia, Gallagher doesn't miss the header completely when Trippier crosses against Slovenia, Foden hit the post and skied one against Denmark etc... That's how football works.
