I can be openly happy or openly optimistic I can be openly ambitious or openly loving non of these are bad terms until somebody or some organization may wish to make them such. Yes words hold great power but in truth it is the feelings and the meaning behind those words in conjunction with the context of conversation and at times situations in which the words were spoken. At the end of the day hate is hate and it is easy to find if you want to look for it, the problem we have is people now want to find hate where it really does not exist and will twist situations and context to prove it that is the worrying thing in my eyes. Don't look for hate and chastise a man for trying to stop a situation from escalating, If that officer had done or said nothing and the Jewish man had gotten into the march and caused mayhem and an officer or the man himself or anybody else were injured or killed we would of been saying that somebody should have said something or anything to stop this escalating. He did that and now people want to criticise because of terminology which he used is absolute bullshit IMO. The officer should be praised for dealing with the situation correctly and too many doo gooders need to find a reason he was wrong.
I completely agree. The application of any kind of common sense leads to the conclusion that the policeman was trying to do the right thing in the circumstances. It seems likely that the bloke went there looking to make a scene. I imagine he knew that he would be prevented from passing through. He would then be able to argue that he was stopped from going where he wanted on the basis that he was clearly Jewish. That's a logically sound argument. That is why he was stopped. He could then make a political point on that basis. Unfortunately, the policeman then used the term "openly Jewish" which carried negative connotations, so he can make a point of that as well. Even when you apply common sense to that situation, I can see how that would make Jewish Londoners feel that they have to hide any symbols of their faith when they go out and about. I believe they've already been told that they should do that. That's not fair. Why should they hide who they are, in their own home city? In that respect, its not the same as wearing football colours.
Yeah, I agree with you mostly. I think the problem is that the "openly" part of it can be read to carry the suggestion that he should be hiding it. Its highly unlikely that was what was meant by the policeman but there is a problem there if it makes people think they have to hide away.
Yes,agree. I was using the club colours analogy to draw attention to the word "openly",in the context I believe the Police meant it to be used,rather than to suggest people should not be able to express their beliefs in their home town or city.
Any application of common sense can see the way it was meant to apply in this instance. It only becomes an issue when the "offended on behalf of others society" seizes on the opportunity afforded them by the ever-more dreaded social media to try to infect others with their poisonous narrative.
Went into it below. Stand by the fact it is a loaded phrase that asks for offence to be taken at it even when spoken without malicious intent. I'm probably done of this matter though. People don't see it the way I do and that's just a-ok.
Oh yeah, I know. I think this whole thing has become bigger because people are already feeling a bit tense about it because there have been a few reported incidences of Jewish people getting abuse in London since all this happened.
Jewish people in whatever city have been getting abuse for well over 2000 years mate....it's why we've arrived at the situation we are at now.
Definitely more an attempt at a turn of phrase than an observation on how mental health facilities have had a history of working.
This is true. The whole thing is so complicated in Palestine that I doubt it will ever be satisfactorily resolved. I don't like to see problems there cause animosity between people here though.
I don't like to see it either,but we'd better get used to it, because we have any amount who are ready to jump on situations like this to try to turn the conversation to their advantage. I think it's called multi-culturalism and it's supposed to be good for us.
I think the thing is, no one is wrong here. Disco is right, it is a term that can be read as offensive, as being negative about Judaism, even if that wasn't the intention. On the other hand, people saying that taking offence to it is ridiculous are right, because it should be obvious that there was no malicious intent.
I think it is just idealism against pragmatism. In an ideal world I absolutely agree with everything that has been said above. We don't live in that world and as has been said above people are dying to take offence and they're dying to have a dig so people who deal with the public need to act accordingly or they will cause offence. I'm not saying I agree with the world or that I like it. But that's where we are and ignoring it or pretending it isn't that way isn't going to help anyone.
Even on a little chat forum, like this, words and phrases can be read in totally contrasting ways ... often by choice, in my opinion, by people who use that 'offence' as a weapon against whoever said it. The man was clearly being openly confrontational because he was wearing a cap that's ony usually worn at prayer and certainly isn't compulsory. He was presenting himself as openly Jewish ... ... exactly how the police officer saw him. Seriously, asking for a man to be sacked and lose his entire career, over a grammatical nuances, is shameful ... ... the officer wasn't being offensive in reality. Offense is often only in the eye of the beholder it seems.
