It hasn't really, and it isn't even the first time this season that people have said what you're saying. The last two games we've played teams who play similarly to us and were happy to go toe to toe with us rather than sitting back. As a result, there are gaps to play forwards and through them (just as there are also gaps for them to play through us). But there are other situations where the opposition don't play like that. They sit back and restrict space in their half. Against those teams, we will play more passes between our defenders - because that's where the space is - whilst they probe for openings further up. This did actually happen in the closing minutes against Boro, when we wanted a winner but they started to sit back and protect their point, so the defenders were having to try and find gaps from a deep position, which a critic might call "faffing about with it at the back". Boro played like this for a few minutes but some teams play that way for the majority of the game. We will play teams like that again in the future and the defenders will have the ball for long periods at times. When this happens, it doesn't mean that we've chosen to go back to doing it because we like being frustrated and don't want to score goals, it usually just means the opposition are set up in a way that means our defenders are left with space to get the ball and our attackers aren't. Almost any team defending a lead late on does this. As I mentioned, there have been other times this season when people have declared after a good result or two that we've stopped passing it about at the back, and people have also previously said that Rosenior must have learned from his mistakes or been told to change his style by those above him, which also seems to be being repeated again now. This is essentially saying that the manager knowingly conspires to restrict our attacking play with his instructions, but occasionally relents and lets them off the leash, or is told to do so. I can't really understand why such an extreme thing is so popular to believe.
Teams learnt they could just sit back and we had little to offer. We are adapting. Young manager still in the early stages, let’s just watch them evolve.
I'm not going to comment on the season as a whole but some of the passing and skill on show today was incredible , I thoroughly enjoyed the game
It’d be hard not to be incredibly grateful going from our previous owner to this. It just feels like he understands what this all means to so many people and wants to share that with us. We’re lucky to have him.
I think this is a good example, 8 or 9 passes in our half before the goal. https://x.com/hullcity/status/1779222666731221374?s=46
I had the same problem, but finally this was rectified 3 minutes before the game started, and the requested to pay again was removed.
I guess that is exactly the performance we all were craving, get into a position whereby we go 3 goals up, then step off the gas slightly and see the game out. Some very good performances, Tufan and Omur in particular, they, along with Carvalho look as if they enjoy playing with each other now. The back 4 didn't really put a foot wrong, nice to see a bit of ****housery pulling Willock back when he could have broke on us on a couple of occasions. Jacob in particular didn't look out of place in the team. Both Seri and Morton controlled the midfield for the most part, Jaden looks as if he is getting back to his best, De Lap looks up to speed already, All we can do now is just keep playing like this, try and win all our remaining games, and see what happens. As we saw yesterday, some unexpected results, Leeds losing and Coventry, so more twists and turns likely to come.
Totally agree with this, it’s almost like having a fly goalie because no one wants to go in goal, 3 central defenders lol.
Good shout mate. Few teams win every game at home but I am convinced Roseinior believed we could sit back and pass our way to promotion rather than try to out score the opposition given the home advantage and opportunity.
So your logic is essentially that we always play the same way every time and it'll work when the opposition come at us and it won't work when they sit deep. It's that simple is it? I don't think that gives the team or Rosenior much credit for the recent turnaround we've been gagging for. In terms of space opening up, it's not down to just how the opposition set up. It's far more down to US creating that space with players like Ömur and Carvalho and Tufan and Philogene and Slater and now even Morton and Seri making runs off each other etc. and the players around them actually threading those passes through. For the vast majority of this season whenever those instances have arisen we've chosen to not commit players forward (Seri being the most standout example), or pass sideways or backwards rather than take that chance to go for it about 90% of the time. We've had numerous games this season where we've had nigh on 70% possession and created between zero and two chances/half chances all game. Now we're creating four minimum every 45 minutes. We have numerous players getting forward quickly and we're playing them in on goal too for clear and obvious chances. You honestly can't see the difference in how we've played between those games like yesterday and say, Stoke at home? The reason people think we play better when we spend less time with possession in front of our own box is because we literally do. How can you score goals and put teams away convincingly (which we've barely done at all this season) when you spend so little time doing anything worthwhile when in possession? 55% possession vs QPR = 3-0 win 57% possession vs Cardiff = 3-1 win 52% possession vs Leicester = 2-2 draw 45% possession vs Boro = 2-1 win 41% possession vs Southampton = 2-1 win 56% possession vs Birmingham = 2-0 win 57% possession vs Cardiff = 3-0 win 37% possession vs Blackburn = 3-2 win 50% possession vs Stoke = 3-1 win 63% possession vs Stoke = 2-0 loss 63% possession vs West Brom = 3-1 loss 62% possession vs Watford = 2-1 loss 66% possession vs QPR = 2-0 loss 67% possession vs Norwich = 2-1 loss 66% possession vs Plymouth = 1-1 draw 64% possession vs Birmingham = 1-1 draw There are obviously a few games that buck the trend, we had loads of possession vs Rotherham and put 4 past them, but they're League 1 standard. We had loads of possession vs Wednesday and beat them 4-2 but thanks to a penalty and two wonder goals. Wednesday away we had very little possession and lost but we were a man down for most of it. The stats do generally show though, that when we focus on keeping the ball, we don't score as many. It's not just down to the opposition, it's because we haven't been rolling the dice on making those defence splitting runs and not picking those passes either. Many of the games where we have two thirds possession we only have a couple of shots on target per game, if that. Bear in mind a lot of these are hit and hope efforts as well that their keeper just picks up and the goals we have scored were more often than not where Delap or Philogene did something special with 4 or 5 defenders in front of them. In all, to suggest we've not changed anything and it's down to the opposition is a poor take. Even without stats or data etc it's clear as day to see that we score more goals and get better results when we take more chances and don't play overly cautiously. Yes, there are some games where we've won with higher possession, but they're lower score lines with fewer shots on target - they're just instances where we've been more clinical with limited chances.
Thank you for taking the time to explain thoroughly the reality. Some people dont want to believe that passing forward is usually better than passing sideways or back.
I’ve been wanting to do a possession analysis for ages (and how it’s meaningless) so thank you. I have a feeling your efforts are in vain though and I believe you could show this to Rosenior himself and he would be too stubborn to see the difference!
I think you're seeing what you want to see and rejecting what you don't want to hear. There is undoubtedly a common link between having lots of possession and losing games, and one reason for that is precisely what I explained previously: the fact that when a team has something to hold onto, they are more likely to sit back and let us have the ball, so we'll have lots of possession and we'll be frustrated. Teams who beat us will inevitably spend large parts of the game holding onto the lead they've got. Yesterday we had less possession because QPR didn't sit back and fear us, they tried to play too, so they held onto it for long spells and created some reasonable chances as well as us. Our second goal is a fine example. We won the ball back near halfway and within a few passes we'd played Carvalho through on goal with loads of space behind them. If they were winning 1-0, I think it's unlikely that space would've been there. There have been lots of games we've played where that space just hasn't been there, because the opposition aren't playing with their back line near halfway and taking risks on the ball. An opposition who is desperate not to concede above all else would simply not have made it possible for us to score that goal. No, I'm not saying we play exactly the same all the time. Things do change of course, but the defenders having the ball at times isn't one of them. That's just the reality of football and space. The opposition decides where to leave us space, and in many cases they will choose to leave us no space in their half, and this will mean we have to be patient as we try to create that space further up whilst the defenders have the ball. This will continue to happen sometimes regardless of what we do. Hopefully over time we get better at breaking down those sorts of defences because clearly it is a weakness (which is another big reason for the correlation between high possession and poor results) although all teams struggle against them from time to time so we can't realistically expect it to never be a problem.
The opposition doesnt decide where to leave us space. If the opposition attacks they dont keep all their players in defence ready to decide where to leave us space. Because they are attacking they leave space at the back. If we get possession and play around with the ball at the back then the opposition usually makes sure they are ready to defend properly. If we get possession and pass the ball forward quickly the opposition is not ready to defend properly.
It certainly does seem that way to me. All season, game after game, bar a small handful of notable exceptions, the majority have been bemoaning how "pedestrian", "overly cautious", "ponderous", etc we've been. How we pass back, sideways, back again, over and over, etc. How the keeper hangs onto the ball for an eternity until both sides reset. And so on. Then all of a sudden it pretty much goes! Yes, it's still possession football, but with pace, intensity, looking forward, less caution, etc. Yes, of course we passed back and sideways at times yesterday, but with absolutely nowhere near the same excess. Question HT2. Is what you posted above what you assume or what you heard from a credible sauce (sic).?
