Understand why Israeli fascist sympathisers don't want you talk about this. What Hamas did on Oct 7th was abhorrent and criminal. But the one thing that has come out of it and Israel's response, is that the world IS finally starting to pay attention to the way Israel destroys and dehumanises the Palestinian people. Now imagine what they've been getting away with for decades when the world wasn't watching or couldn't care less. And that's why ppl like Windy don't want you focusing on it. To turn a blind eye to it, to treat it like it's nothing really. They've had 80 years of stripping Palestinians of their homes, their livelihoods and their dignity. And killing and maiming thousands along the way. Israelis are so desensitised by it that they can no longer see the actions they're committing are criminal and abhorrent.
Should also be pointed out that as an illegal occupying force in Gaza, IDF soldiers are a legitimate target for Hamas under international law
The IDF and Hamas are legitimate targets for each other. But using that to kill and maim tens of thousands of women and children is a deliberate strategy to reduce future generations. It is genocide. Any other country doing it would've been called out for it. And if that's not the reason then why are they bombing the **** out of Gaza? Every aim they spout is pure bollox. They're never going to eradicate Hamas, and they don't give a fck about the hostages. In fact the only hostages who managed to escape during the fighting they shot dead themselves. This should tell anyone they're barbaric maniacs. What the fck is all this achieving? Only one thing, destroy Gaza, capture more land in the West Bank, detain more Palestinians without charge (approx 7000 now), kill as many women and children indiscriminately to reduce future generations, and starve the rest. Those are the aims
To be fair I've never known anyone to talk about the civilians for what I remember (in the situations you mentioned), people tend to just speak about the 'war.' I condemn the US for the assults on Iraq for sure, but I don't think I ever gave a thought to the civilians, genuinely don't. As for Vietnam I just use that to take the piss out of the Americans, because I felt they got their butts kicked on the ground. In both contexts the civilians never came into it. I will admit to mentioning them in Ukraine or more so Mariupol, but that's more to do with no one mentioning them yet wanting to talk about them in Gaza. My view still remains the same as I originally posted on here, Hamas are evil and need wiping out, the same as I'm sure they would do to us (UK/US) they are not a movement of peace, they do not want a two state solution, they would rather see Israel wiped off the face of the earth, put more strongly, if you knock on the door of the devil then hell fire will dawn on you. In short don't poke the fooking bear! This war will certainly never be forgotten now, but if it makes the next haters think twice before knocking, then lets hope it's a harsh lesson learned (for want of better words).
I remember plenty talking about civilians in places like Baghdad, the daily incidents of ppl being blown to bits by al-qaeeda, and the furore over what the U.S. did in Abu Ghraib. Plenty of outrage at the time over civilian casualties in the Vietnam war too tbh. But even if we take out the civilian casualties, my point is that when those wars were being rallied against, when ppl were calling them out for being criminal or unjust, we weren't all saying "hey lets not focus on this war" there was no whataboutery. I doubt this war will make anyone think twice. As I've said before, this will only fuel another generation of militants who have already been dehumanised and stripped of their dignity, their freedoms, lost loved ones so they really have nothing left to lose. The only thing that might change is the name above the door. It may not be Hamas but something else. What's their alternative? Just carry on living under occupation. The ony hope for a long term solution is a negotiated peace and an independent state for Palestine. Until then, this carries on.
I hear what you are saying Trebs, but I can only speak for myself and I don't think I've expressed any concern for civilians in Iraq or Vietnam, I expressed my displeasure at those attacks and drawing us or the Americans into conflicts, I don't like the fact we got involved in Ukraine either and started shagging their flag. I think all we do by getting involved is create more death and destruction while safely watching from behind our tv screens - once I see our boots on the ground and members of not606 signed up, only then will I reconsider my perspective. It's easy being a spectator and passing judgement thousands of miles away, I prefer to see no one die, but this is what happens when war is created, humans being humans yet again.
Which is your right ... nice to have them - shame ordinary Gazan women and kids haven't had that luxury...
I do remember Mi Lai in the Vietnam war and being appalled by it as the reality and enormity unfolded - the 1970s film Soldier Blue was a direct reference to it and symbolic for the growing anti-Vietnam war movement- also demonstrating that US armed forces had 'history' in terms of 'war crimes" .. albeit that Sand Creek, The Washita and Wounded Knee were back in the 1800s ...
Can't say I've ever known of another conflict where AI technology was deliberately deployed to target people in their own homes and used intentionally to kill them, their families and anybody else who happens to be within the vicinity. Machines making decisions about who lives and dies Not saying other regimes wouldn't have used that tech if it was available at the time But it seems to be a particularly evil and barbaric way to conduct a 'war'
I think what don't help these days is social media and 24/7 news channels, we now get to see the atrocities of war in real time. The days of Reginald Bosanquet long gone, when we could just stir our cuppa tea and shout at the kid to change the channel because Steptoe was on. These days we see what real blood and real death looks like, whether we live in Cornwall or John o'Groats, and even Steptoe's son is dead.
Tell you what shocked me was seeing the footage of drones on social media pinpointing and exterminating soldiers in the Ukraine/Russia war, this was happening on both sides. just seems even more evil when someone can do it from behind the safety of a small screen. It don't seem a fair fight, but it's a good reminder that war isn't fair - which is why I hate it when we (UK) get involved, but I know people would probably remind me that you and me wouldn't exist if we hadn't got involved in wars, but it don't make it anymore comforting, we just have to accept some humans are evil and dont care who lives and who dies.
Yeah the drone footage in ukraine is horrible to see. Whatever the politics, seeing an armed drone chase down a young man and blow him to pieces is horrendous The tech Israel are using is truly chilling though. AI machines deciding that a man, his family and everybody around him should die, because he was once in an whatsapp group with a suspected hamas operative. The fact that it waits until he is at home with his family before striking is pure evil in my eyes.
America have been using those tactics for a long time, I'm sure they used it in Afghanistan and wiped out the mans family there to. I think you are just noticing it and focusing on it more because...I'm off to check the football scores lol,
Pretty sure the US have targeted what they consider high ranking Taliban and Al Queda members in their own homes. Don't think I've seen AI choosing to do the same coz somebody was in a whatsapp group though.
