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Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v West Ham United

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by PleaseNotPoll, Apr 1, 2024.

  1. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    Since we are 18th in corners conceded and 16th in set piece goals conceded that implies we are better than average at defending corners.
     
    #281
  2. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

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    No it doesn’t
     
    #282
  3. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    Well not for sure which is why I said implies.
    If we are average in defending corners then we would be 18th in conceding goals from corners. Since we are 16th in conceding from set pieces that means one of....we are better at defending corners, or we don't concede often from other set pieces. But there is insufficient data in your post to know why. The only thing that is demonstrably poor is the number of corners conceded.
     
    #283
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  4. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Other players who can drop back

    A big part of why we were so good at defending corners last season was Harry Kane was dropping back to defend them as he offered additional aerial protection

    What this really asks is if there's a noticeable improvement in defending corners when we have Richy on the pitch compared to without, as he does drop back to defend and does have an aerial presence that most of our forwards lack

    That being said, there's something that is overlooked about the number of goals we've conceded from corners this season: between August and late December we didn't concede a single goal from corners, that only started during the Christmas period when Everton and Brighton both scored from them within days of one another - though it didn't really start picking up until the Mansourites, Everton and Wolves all scored against us in a three week spell...a three week spell of seeing teams setting up to have someone back into Vicario at corners at every opportunity, with Everton making it especially obvious what was going on
     
    #284
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  5. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    Werner's better at heading the ball, as is anyone else with a head, and physically holding up play.
    Son's great at dribbling and running with the ball, but he gets muscled off it easily.
    The physical, gritty part of the game simply isn't something Son enjoys.
    He thrives on space and movement. He can't even get shots off against low block sides.

    I'd prefer Richarlison up top, but as TCM points out, he's clearly not fit enough to do so right now.
    I don't think that weakening the side by moving Son out of position helps us.
    At least having Werner and Son switch it up during the game would make the opposition think.
    They could even put Johnson into the mix, as he seems pretty versatile.
     
    #285
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  6. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    The stats are bad but I think that we can all see that things aren't right, too.
    Zouma scored from a free header and wasn't picked up on the next two corners either.
    Absolutely ridiculous for one of their more obvious threats on set-pieces into the box.

    I don't think that Vicario's doing a lot wrong, contrary to the media pasting that he's getting.
    It's a lack of organisation and leadership. Perhaps insufficient training on this aspect of the game?
    Leaving players like Son and Johnson up may help, too. Make the opposition leave people back.
     
    #286

  7. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    I don't think that the highlights show a particularly accurate summary of the match.
    It does highlight the lack of pressure we put Flappyhandski under, though.
    That and the need for better guide dogs for the officials.
     
    #287
  8. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    Werner isn’t better at heading nor holding it up though, he may not be worse but he isn’t better. He’s substantially worse at just about everything else though.

    Richarlison is a better option than Werner and against more physical defences he’d be better than Son but neither player offers us the finishing ability that Son does and whilst the team isn’t creating anywhere near enough clear cut chances at the moment, our best bet for CF is likely to be Son until we sign a new option because he’s the only forward we have that’s capable of scoring from nothing or half chances.
     
    #288
  9. The Changing Man

    The Changing Man Well-Known Member

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    Sort of!! he missed the ball completely with his head and it went in off his back but the overall point about him being able to amble across our box with none of our players thinking that they need to go with him is spot on.

    It should be noted that they are one of the best at corners, the deliveries from both sides last night were excellent, and always threatening particularly when compared to ours. and in Antonio, Zouma and Soucek they have 3 very good targets.
     
    #289
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  10. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    I think even Eriksen's better in the air than Son and that's saying something! <laugh>
    He simply doesn't do it, most of the time. He won't even challenge for them.
    Postecoglou knows Werner can head a ball: https://streamin.me/v/b65cf5af
    Having Son in the middle reduces the likelihood of him getting those chances, though.
    He barely had a sniff last night and was surrounded when he got the odd touch in the box.
    It weakens us and him by playing him as a striker against a low block.
     
    #290
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  11. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    It was virtually their entire game plan.
    Sit back and stay tight, play the ball long and wide to win set-pieces, then get good delivery.
    Ward-Prowse and Bowen are both impressive on them, as you say.
    Pinning the keeper also works well, if you're allowed to get away with it.
     
    #291
  12. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

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    IMG_0356.jpeg
     
    #292
  13. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    Thought I would watch the highlights of their game against them lot.

    Although notably they went behind to headers from
    set pieces, once they were done they could not do
    anything close to the busparquet of yesterday.

    So in that regard the fault somewhat lies with Spurs.
    Moyes Spanners level or only a goal behind can
    play that turgid game. Two or more and they
    have to come out in open play.
     
    #293
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  14. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    They don't have a lot of options to switch things up, either.
    Their bench yesterday was as follows:
    Anang, Johnson, Cresswell, Phillips, Cornet, Ings, Ogbonna, Earthy, Mubama.

    A few decent defensive options, Cornet, Ings and some kids.
    Moyes didn't use any of them and you can sort of see why.
     
    #294
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  15. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    Son’s scored headers too, doesn’t actually mean he’s better or worse than Werner or vice versa. Ange probably doesn’t know - or doesn’t agree - that Werner’s better at heading, hence why he hasn’t trusted him centrally of yet, though that’s also likely mainly because he knows Werner can barely finish a sentence let alone half chances.

    It doesn’t, he’s already on 15 league goals this season having played the majority of games at CF, this is his third best goal return in the Prem and he has eight games to catch his second. No one would’ve had a sniff last night. West Ham defended really well and we couldn’t break them down barring the early goal. We’ve seen over the years even Kane struggling at times against defences like that, that’s just football, not Son’s lack of ability as a CF.

    There’s a reason both Chelsea and Leipzig signed other CFs/ STs when they had Werner, he’s not a reliable goal threat to warrant starting in the position that is the side’s primary goal outlet.
     
    #295
  16. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    How many has Son scored at centre-forward against low block sides?
    I really don't think that it's very many. Palace at home and Villa away, maybe?
    He's having a very good season, but those circumstances don't suit him or the team.

    Shifting Werner probably wouldn't change his contribution that much, but I think it would change Son's.
    He missed a month of the campaign on international duty and he's still up there.
    I think he can get another golden boot if he's given the opportunity.
     
    #296
  17. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    I can’t say for sure but it’ll be more than what Werner would manage seeing as Werner just does what Son does only a lot worse.

    Shifting Son back out wide also likely reduces the number of half chances he gets, especially as the team is creating very little of late.

    The football these last few months in comparison to the first couple is as much to blame as opposition defences or Son’s abilities I’d say. We really have become quite predictable, stylistically we’re completely the opposite to Conte from conceding possession to dominating it but we’re doing close to nothing with it and it’s almost felt just as boring at times. We had 68% possession last night yet had the same amount of shots on target as West Ham, we only one more shot on target than Luton too and had even more possession, I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s similar stats for other games this calendar year too. Something has just switched off somewhere, we’ve practically had a full strength squad for months but things are no longer clicking. It’s a problem Ange needs to try and address, as well as the club in the summer to give him better options to work with.
     
    #297
  18. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Any moment now somebody might realise one thing about a lot of the chances Werner fluffs, namely that he created those chances himself from little to nothing
     
    #298
  19. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    I don't think that moving Son out wide does reduce the chances that he gets.
    We all know how many goals he gets with those ridiculous curlers from outside the box.
    It's just a starting position and allows him to come into the box, instead of being more static.
    Even his goal against Luton came after Richarlison had been on for a few seconds.

    I've said before that we shifted from an early 4-3-3 to a 4-2-3-1 and I'm not sure why.
    Maddison seemed to be playing much wider to me, though I'm not sure this is statistically supported.

    Your point about full strength is basically true, but I don't think it's the full picture.
    Maddison, Bentancur and Bissouma are all still way off 100%, in my opinion.
    The first two had bad injuries, while the last one had malaria. They're playing like it, too.

    Ange-ball pushes the fullbacks inside, so the wingers are supposed to create width.
    I took the piss out of Robbie Savage's poor version of that last night, but he's nearly right.
    The problem is that the width isn't creating much, except those balls fired across the box.
    We don't have midfielders attacking crosses or a targetman, unless Richarlison starts.
    Even when he does we don't put in aerial balls.

    I'll save PowerSpurs some typing and point out that we have scored more goals than ever, though.
    We're conceding too many and we're having to be quite clinical, as we're not creating enough.
    Our midfield's being quite dominant in possession, but our overall approach is too slow.
    We don't give our defence enough cover and seem sluggish in getting back at times, too.
     
    #299
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  20. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

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    Would you like to see Werner signed on a permanent deal?
     
    #300

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