so you really believe that? he even knows the number of posts and keeps coming back obviously too scared to debate Must have been a soldier in Ireland
To mistrust something is one thing, what you base the mistrust on is the issue. The historical content I speak of is varifiable from a multitude of sources. friend and enemy He wasnt murdered in his bed. Once again I believe you are showing your ignorance. He wasnt one of his biggest detractors, again more ignorance. Why not just read up on it if you are going to argue it? Not a case of liking or disliking the site, I was alerting you to its ownership. Your choice whether you still want to cite it. You will look silly though if you choose to do so as most of its claims are easily countered. you obviously missed the point with the figures, as well as the hitler comparison It does seem that you are the one blinded by hatred tbh, based on the fact that your evidence seems to be either a mistake which you completely got wrong yet keep alluding to 'blind faith' You also forget or exclude what doesnt suit, you argue about rafi' using a site that is islamophobic, yet the very site tells you that rafi's crime was that he 'had collected the mixed tribes together against the apostle'. yet you refuse to answer or look into what that actually means There is a long story behind rafi's assasination which I can go into if you wish. Suffice to say it involved multiple killings and breaking of treaty's and assasination attempts. The fella was a criminal
except they were statues remember? so your sources are not even read by you Your sources are no more varifiable (sic) than mine. Unless you have a time machine. My sources are as verifiable as your ancestory eg great great great grandad. UJnless you doubt those too That's what I've read. So what happened according to your alternative source? There is NO alternative to how he was killed, and it was not in his bed. I dont think even answering Islam says that. did you make it up? Not according to my sources. He was a big critic of Muhammad apparently, mocked him with poetry. You yourself have stated it was because he collected the mixed tribes together against the apostle based on AI. His assasination was not based on the poetry Look silly according to who? Muslims who don't like the site or its owners? I reckon I can live with that. And if it's so easily countered, go ahead. google it, its not just muslims. google sam shamoun. or do you think only blacks etc dislike the BNP? and as I said he has been destroyed in debates etc many times by better men than me. Anyhow the point was that it was informing you. you want to use their arguments, fine, makes it easier for me No point missed. You said Hitler only disliked one group. Which is rather rich, considering you've been accusing me of ignorance. It's pretty common knowledge that Hitler had several groups of undesirables that were sent to concentration camps. Much more commonly known than the stuff you've said I've been ignorant of. mainly a hatred for jews no?, although my artgument was/is that rafi' was an enemy of more than one group of people as you were wrongly asserting. and you are basing the 'much more commonly' on what you know not what the world as a whole knows. I base my opinions on this subject on internet research and common sense. You base your whole life on what some bloke allegedly said and did 1350 years ago. Which is blinder? really? yet your internet research lead to you believeing 3 statues were real people and your common sense of people 'must' have defended is also wrong. As for the length of time what has that to do with anything? You're a fine one to accuse others of forgetting and exclude what doesn't suit! What makes the site Islamophobic anyway? The fact it disagrees with the official line? Also, is my summation of the meaning of "collecting the mixed..." not true then? So it's been mis-translated? what have I excluded? why is the BNP site racist? have you provided a meaning? If he was a criminal, (and according to my sources his only crimes were fomenting unrest and mocking Muhammad) why not execute him as one? Why assassinate him? what are your sources? answeringislam? in that case its wrong They did execute him, he was in hiding the executioners simply went to him Anyway let me help you a bit I did try and give you a few clues as in the real name of abu rafi' which was Sallam ibn Abu'l-Huqayq. A tribal leader who had been expelled from Medina (where the prophet was based at the time after leaving mecca). Sallam (rafi') was a leader of the banu nadir and he was instrumental in gathering the quraish and surrounding tribes in an attempt to attack and annihilate the muslims. This battle was called the battle of the Trench (look it up) there were between 10000 and 12000 enemy units and 3000 muslims and it was a defensive war. now to help yopu with your source/s The points you put across (probably unknown to you) are traced back to a book about the prophets life written by Ibn Ishaq who was a what we call tabieen. This is basically the second generation. The first is sahabah - basically those who saw the prophet, then tyhe tabieen who saw the sahabah, and thirdly the tab tabieen or those who saw the tabieen Now there are a lot of issues with Ibn Ishaq, for example some called him 'the liar', not only that but this particular book and its quotes are not available in their original source. In fact there was no book in the true sense. most o what was available were notes from his students Not only that but the version which is translated by guilliame into english is a version by Hisham who openly says he excluded certain things from it I could go on but wont. 1 last thing though Ibn Ishaq was 'forced' to leave medina due to fabrication
I didnt say who he was forced by though, I knew you were going to jump straight to that and ignore the rest hook, Line and Sinker my friend You are as braindead as the other guys who spout nonsense without knowing the subject matter, which is sad as I generally thought you were different
you must be getting your info from the same sources as Jip It is a well known fact that the Prohet had an illness (including a fever) but he overcame these. He went to the mosque and died later that night
Hang on a sec Fan, "jump straight to that"? I answered all your other points first FFS! In black text after your points in red. I think you just saw my last comment outside the quote bubble, was triumphant about your successful little ploy and answered without reading anything else And it's no surprise I jumped to that conclusion is it? Muslims aren't the best when it comes to hearing criticism about their faith (eg fat'wa against Salman Rushdie, that ridiculous business about the Danish cartoonist, you falling out with me just because I'm not willing to sit and be spoon-fed your patronising fairy-tales). The thing is Fan, you think I'm spouting nonsense, so you've taken offence. I've seen you spouting nonsense (IMO) many a time in the past, but I've not taken offence. I think everything you say about Islam, Mohammad etc is contrived, biased and fabricated bollocks, as are your many criticisms of Britain, but none of it offends me. So why are you offended? It's because you're a zealot. You can't accept that someone won't believe what you believe and won't be persuaded by all the old bollocks that you've swallowed for whatever reason. Not particularly unusual for a religious person unfortunately, but it's irrational, unbending, stubborn, intolerant and indoctrinated people like you that cause many of the world's problems.
As for Shamoun, I've googled him, and much of what people say about him is complimentary. Apparently he destroyed Nadir Ahmed (who is apparently one of these "better men than you" you spoke of, a real heavyweight when it comes to defending Islam) in a debate about whether or not Islam is a religion of peace. Ahmed even used a false identity to log on the discussion forum and praise himself It's the kind of thing you'd get on here: http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2008/01/sam-shamoun-vs-nadir-ahmed-is-islam.html
Dying of an illness? Pretty lame really, especially for a prophet. Crucifixion, now that's impressive
No probs. And despite my criticisms of you in that reply, for some reason I can't bring myself to dislike you (unlike the majority on here). Maybe it's because we have something in common with our kids, I don't know. I still think Islam is a load of bollocks though. As are all the other religions though.
