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Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Crystal Palace

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by PleaseNotPoll, Feb 28, 2024.

  1. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

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    Relieved to pick up 3 points, especially having just seen the Villa score.

    I think we're simply seeing the result of a net poorer attacking unit.

    In no version of the universe does replacing Kane with any (or all) of Richarlison, Werner, Kulu, Johnson or even Son make us a better team.

    Forget the basics like goals and assists, it was Kane's all-round game that made him so deadly. He could operate at an elite level anywhere in the final third which made him a nightmare for opposing teams.

    Our current crop of attackers have talent but are many steps removed from that level. We look predictable because our attackers are largely just that: talented but very predictable. Which means well organised teams won't struggle too much at all to deal with them.

    Unsurprisingly, our last two wins have therefore somewhat relied on the only real ace we have up our sleeves, which is the introduction of pace off the bench to run at tired legs. Even well organised teams will struggle to cope with this, and as a result Johnson is steadily turning opinion around as a crucial squad member. Perhaps our most important one based on recent evidence.

    Improving the quality up top has to be the #1 priority this summer. It was criminal we didn't even try to replace Kane when he left and we are now clearly seeing the knock on effect.
     
    #121
  2. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

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    Yeah a proper no9 has to be the priority this summer.

    The defence and midfield probably needs to be improved too but the glaring need is that focal point up top.

    Send Werner back to Leipzig and hopefully get one of the Saudi clubs offer half decent money for Richarlison and then go big for someone who will fit the way the manager wants to play.
     
    #122
  3. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    The "season compass" currently shows the GF is slightly
    better, so the loss of Kane has been compensated for.

    What is irrefutable is that Kane is WC. Which means of
    all the decent scoring opportunities collectively presented
    this season :

    1. he would have taken some of them
    (and the extra pts therein that would have been won)

    2. in the games against the usual suspects, where
    opportunities are few, that is the difference between winning and not.
     
    #123
  4. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    The issue with Werner isn't that players aren't passing to him in and around the opposition box, they're not passing him going into the final third - so as a result they both make our play more predictable while also making it harder for themselves

    There was certainly parallels to this in Johnson's early games where he wasn't receiving the ball for long stretches of matches, though this leads to the second wrinkle: a large part of Johnson getting the ball sooner comes down to Porro being much more instinctive when it comes to releasing the ball, while Udogie does overrun the ball far more often and that does leave our left flank malnourished regardless of who is playing on that flank, hence Sonny was anonymous for long stretches of games as a LW early in the season, also why Richy disappears for long stretches of games when he starts as a LW (part of the reason, anyway...), and now we have Werner operating in a different existence to the rest of the team on the LW

    The only LW who can't blame Udogie not releasing the ball leading to their anonymity is Bryan Gil, given when he does receive the ball he's usually shoulder barged into the advertising hoardings with little effort
     
    #124
  5. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    We don't necessarily have to go big in the summer: Jonathan David of Lille is perfect for our system, and as things stand he'll have a year left on his contract in the summer which puts him in the £50m bracket (mainly due to Ligue 1's FFP rules inflating player prices when they expect an auction)

    ...I hate how £50m is the equivalent of £15m a decade ago
     
    #125
  6. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

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    I’d still class £50million as big money. Think only Richarlison and Ndombele cost more :emoticon-0132-envy:
     
    #126
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  7. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

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    IMG_9744.jpeg

    That’s why there was more than 8 mins added on for their game.
     
    #127
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  8. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Thanks to Premier League hyperinflation (thanks, Chelsea!) £50m is effectively £25-30m in 2015-17 money, which is closer to what we paid for Son or Lucas at the time

    For comparison, in the last eighteen months we paid north of £40m for Romero, Porro and Johnson, so if we did get David for £50m that is a comparative bargain - especially compared to the £70-80m Feyenoord are asking for Santi Gimenez who, frankly, gives me Barren Dent vibes
     
    #128
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2024
  9. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    Scoring goals is our major improvement on last season. Why does that mean we need to spend in that area?
     
    #129
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  10. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    There's a few things worth remembering imho:

    1. Pre season people all thought we'd come 10th-8th at best. It's was only our outstanding start that changed expectations to silly levels.

    2. We are a far better attacking team ... 38 consecutive league games scoring... (26 of them since Kane left) and an increase in chances created this season (higher than any season since 2018-19).

    3. We still have players in the squad that were signed by Pochettino, JM, Nuno and Conte who are simply taking up positions because we haven't been able to move them on such as Lo Celso, Sessengon, Royal, Hoejberg, Gil, Richarlison plus there is also Skipp.

    Then there are those on loan such as Ndombele, Reguilon, Spence and Rodon.

    None of those players are either good enough to be top players or suite Ange's style of football.

    We have strengthened the first team and have better options on the bench than previously.

    However, we need at least one proper striker (as much as I like the effort of Richarlison and Werner they simply are too wasteful), at least one more central defender, 2 new full backs and competition/cover for Maddison.

    If we get those positions sorted with Ange's preferred players we will be able to fully judge him.

    4. I think it is easy to forget just how awful the past 4 years have been.

    19/20
    444 attempts 160 on target
    61 goals ... 3 penalties
    1.61 goals per game

    20/21
    443 attempts 176 on target
    68 goals .... 5 penalties
    1.71 goals per game

    21/22
    491 attempts 198 on target
    69 goals...5 penalties
    1.82 goals per game

    22/23
    518 attempts 199 on target
    70 goals ... 5 penalties
    1.84 goals per game

    23/24
    409 attempts 154 on target
    55 goals ... 1 penalty
    2.12 av per game

    We are creating more, scoring more and overall playing more pleasing football to watch.

    I think a little patience is needed
     
    #130
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  11. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    With a better striker wemay well have beaten both West Ham and Villa and Brighton away... 9 extra points would have us joint second... those are the fine margins.

    Whilst we defended poorly as a team v Brighton Richarlison missed 2 excellent chances and had 2 disallowed for easily avoidable offsides.

    We should have been 4 up against both Villa and West ham but ultimately lost both.
     
    #131
  12. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    I think the added time for time wasting is one of the few recent rule changes that have actually improved things
     
    #132
  13. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

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    You’ve wrote a lot there so I can’t reply to it all but finishing 6th or higher this season would be a good season considering the change of manager (never managed in a big league before) and losing Kane

    It’s an improvemeny over last season for sure. Let’s not forget that Conte finished 4th and the football towards the end of his first season as Spurs reeled in Arsenal was decent.

    As for patience, we’ve been waiting for years so I don’t think it’s far to say anyone is impatient unless you’re saying patience with Ange?
     
    #133
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  14. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    Definitely mean patience with Ange.

    Agree about Conte in 2022. From March to May we played brilliant football that was a joy to watch...it's a big part of what made the next season so disappointing.
     
    #134
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  15. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    I do too.

    £50m should be able to get you a top tier baller if you know where to look. Problem for us is we put blindfolds on when spending £50m or more on Ndombele and Richarlison.
     
    #135
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  16. Spurlock

    Spurlock Homeboy
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    I’m chilled with this season

    I’ve been coasting it mentally win lose or draw

    ive enjoyed the wins and I’ve treated every loss or draw as an opportunity to learn something about what needs changing because it’s his first season

    Ange can be the man for this club imo the positives are clear to see, a few negatives but they can be forged out if he is backed in the transfer market properly.

    The Paratici signings have been class but we don’t make proper statement signings, we make expensive signings for well known names being talked of on and off through a season due to being hit n miss, them type of players for big money. The big money signings need to be class, that’s what this team needs, it’s got the youngsters

    should have been all in £125 mill for Osimen to replace Kane…should have at least tried imo

    we got the capital

    why buy Maddison but take Kane away? One needs the other to complete this team or near enough complete it, makesno sense in football terms to me…yeh you can shuffle him there and put him here but we are losing a World class striker at least sign us an almost world class striker.

    We need to do the transfer windows right
     
    #136
  17. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

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    Improvement on last season is excellent, but the team currently top of the table have scored 9 more than us while we play a system that is wholly reliant on outscoring the opposition.

    You might reply 'let's wait until the season is over to make a fair assessment' and I wouldn't argue with that.

    But if the current table is relatively accurate, it means we need to seek improvement. The question is: where?

    Having better squad options so that any further injuries crises don't totally derail momentum is an excellent place to start, but is ultimately reliant on us doing something we've struggled to do for six transfer windows: shift the old squad options.

    It is also worth asking if the starting XI can be improved and if so, where?

    Some positions may strengthen as young players get better with experience and coaching. Others it is worth asking (as I always do): Would this player get into the XI of the teams we're trying to catch and overtake?

    I personally don't think there's a case to be made about a single attacker at the club apart from Son, who is a declining force. Richarlison, Werner, Kulu, Johnson, Solomon and Gil get nowhere near the City, Pool or Arsenal teams, which suggests if we seek to improve that area, we might score even more goals.
     
    #137
  18. Billy The Spur

    Billy The Spur Well-Known Member

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    And your point is?, doesn`t change the fact a drop ball was given incorrectly to Varpool immediately before they scored does it.
     
    #138
  19. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

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    I was also frustrated we didn't even try last summer but tbf I do appreciate the club's thinking.

    Ultimately if you can offer CL football, you're dishing in much more lucrative waters - especially when it comes to strikers.

    The club gambled we might have enough to get CL status back and, if we do, in hindsight the decision to hold off on pursuing a striker will seem very wise.

    Also I think overall there wasn't much movement with strikers last year. Kane was the only big name who moved iirc. I think the Mbappe move this season could set off a chain reaction.
     
    #139
  20. RRich

    RRich Well-Known Member

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    I’m glad the messed up trains yesterday meant I missed the entire first half yesterday.

    VDV, Johnson, Romero, Son all did well. Just feel there is one piece missing up front and then we could be top 3 challengers for the next few seasons.
     
    #140

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