Right. So what's your point? Religious folk (not all of them) believe that homosexuality is a) a choice and b) morally wrong. This is largely based on a) a book that was allegedly written by some Jesus person and b) ignorance. So, you have a cake shop you run (presumably 6 days a week and not 7) and when a gay customer enters and asks for something that goes against your beliefs you refuse based on a personal decision rather than a business decision? And this is ok? Because I detest what you do in the bedroom I refuse to recognise your right to be a human being?
My point is that it was a sweeping generalisation. Another point is that no one ever said Jesus had anything to do with writing the Bible, the Koran or any of the other religious texts.
Which you countered with a question about what gay vicars think. So yeah, there will be homosexual vicars and you'd assume they are conflicted over what the fictional "bible" says. My assumption is that this is an extremely small minority. I speak as a (technically) Catholic person with people in my extended family who have a strong faith and a strong aversion to homosexuality.
Can any Theologicaly minded soul tell me where in the New Testament, homosexuality is mentioned in a clear and unambifuous way,? It is alluded to, and condemed, in the Old Testament, the Jewish part of the Bilble. I do recall that in this part of The Bible having multiple numer of Wives is permited. Soloman, apparently a very WISE Man was said tohave 700 wives and 300 concubines. Rather picky on occasions as to which bits of The Bible, some people choose to believe and support. And that's OK. But those who have cherry picked different bits deserve respect too.
I've just had a think about your question, don't know the answer, so wanted to pose a hypothetical scenario. Everyone has a right to their own private beliefs and, like myself, don't always broadcast them. This baker may hold certain beliefs he doesn't make a big deal of. He doesn't put a sign up, in his shop, to discriminate against anyone. So an old man comes in and asks for a cake with 'To my my girlfriend on her 14th birthday, time for your first sexual experience'. The baker refuses, is he justified?
But the man is German and that's the legal age of consent, so he's perfectly entitled. Would the baker be justified in refusing?
If the bakery is in Germany, then he has no legal recourse. If it's a German man, living in UK then it is reasonable to refuse.
No he's not living in the UK, they're visiting and her birthday falls during the holiday. He believes that sex with a 14 year old German girl is fine and it's certainly legal. What right does the baker have to refuse, surely he can't discriminate against another country and their customs.
I'm more for same sex marriage than I was at the time of this thread. I see no problem in it whatsoever. Bur I still don't think it's wrong for the baker not to want to partake in this. I probably wouldn't use a local business I heard had these beliefs, but I don't think he should have to do it. I think people taking a morale stand in the face of mindless commerce is a big thing, though I disagree with his beliefs.
Well, I wouldn't be asking for a cock cake in one of those countries The original argument has been lost here. Homosexuality isn't illegal in the country where the baker refused to serve a gay person
Yes I know but the German isn't doing anything illegal and only acting on his beliefs. He's not asking for anyone to agree with his beliefs, or break the law ... he just wants a cake baking. You were saying visitors should respect our beliefs, should we respect theirs?
He didn’t refuse to serve a gay person. If the gay person wanted a cake with ‘Happy 40th’ on it, the owner would have been happy to do it. He just refused to put a pro homosexual slogan on the cake as the customer requested. I wouldn’t use that business myself but it’s his business and I don’t see what he’s done wrong.
I don't decorate cakes now, but have in the past. If someone wanted a cake with (for example) a newcastle crest and "Ho'way the lads" written on it, I would refuse. I couldn't bring myself to do it, my choice as far as I'm concerned.
