We scored from Southampton messing about at the back. As well as had lots of other chances (and momentum) gained from it. Southampton also absolutely should have scored first in that game too from us doing this. There are many examples of us being very lucky this season and it is no wonder why other teams score first when we give them early chances from us playing out from the back. When we go behind, we generally stop doing it and that often leads to success. As you can tell, I’m firmly in the camp that we shouldn’t be doing it. I do understand that it draws the opposition in and we have scored goals from the quick counter attacks. But is that a way to play at home? Is it what is going to get the crowd going? Or is it more likely to get the crowd nervous and on the player’s backs? (rhetorical question on the last two). And before anyone says the crowd needs to get on board with it, good luck with that. Lots of the gasps and moans are a natural consequence. It’s easy to say after a few wins that this is working. But like many have stated (including myself), we have a squad that is top 6 quality and we are not over-achieving, like some people outside of Hull want to believe. Having said all this, please understand that I believe Rosenior is doing a great job. I think he is doing 99 things out of 100 right (I love his team talks, passion, recruitment, starting XI’s and subs etc). I want him to be our most successful manager. I love what him and Dawson etc are achieving. Anyway, I don’t need to say any more on the matter. Just woke up in the night and felt I needed to get that off my chest to help cope with the nervousness of the next game. I would be interested to hear a response from those in the other camp of why we should play it at home though? Or if you agree that the negatives outweigh the positives in this instance and that it could be one of the main reasons for our poor home points tally?
So you weren't being sarcastic.. did you miss all the opportunities we created against Southampton by playing out from the back? We broke through Coyle on multiple occasions after playing the ball around and drawing Southampton players in to create space.
We did. But they had lost their confidence by then and didn’t regain it until the second half. Southampton played like we normally do in that first half, trying to play out from the back and getting caught out due to our press and then gave the ball away cheaply on multiple occasions. While we did play great football when we got it and created lots of chances, you can’t deny that we were gifted most of them through their poor play. Read the Southampton forum and see how their fans felt. If I get time, I can copy and paste many quotes if you like? I was rubbing my hands when I saw them using their goalkeeper and defenders in every build-up play. So anyway, do you have a response to my question about it being detrimental at home? I’m genuinely interested. I respect a lot of what you say Syd, but I just don’t agree on this topic.
Playing out from the back is great as long as the other ingredients are there too, needs to be with purpose, quick, fluid. Passing it around aimlessly is when the crowd gets bored and also nervous. I think more movement from the midfield would help a lot with the passing options.
It is a huge part of what we do. I just read a snippet from a coaching manual which for some reason keeps popping up on fb (amazing social media team at City?). They call it bait pass, which draws a press and … the rest is history. I guess the idea is that they work and work on drills on the training ground so it is second nature until they don’t lose confidence in doing it even when it goes wrong. That’s what Ros means when he talks about being brave. I suspect it is even more important at home when losing and the opposition have 11 men behind the ball.
About the only thing I don't like about playing out from the back is what we seem to do a lot of. The short ball in front of goal (in or edge of the box or in the D area), to one of ours (Seri, Morton, Slater) when they have at least one opposition player tight on them. If we cut that out it would be much less dangerous and more enjoyable. I prefer my excitement fix at their end of the pitch,
I am in the camp of happy we play out from the back. Liam has always said it is risky, but in his opinion and mine the positives out weigh the risk. 1. From when we started we have now minimised the mistakes we make doing it, so we are better at it. 2. Liam has changed his approach slightly, and with Allsop particularly, goes long if there is no short pass on. 3. I think the 2nd half against Huddersfield, because Morton went off and no Seri in the side, we went long most of the time. All that happened we gave the ball to them and came under pressure. I agree it is nerve racking at times, but for me less so now than a year ago. We had adapted it by going long quite often when there is a player in space, as we did to Giles for the first goal against Southampton.
It’s a good strategy, it works a lot of the time. The thing that concerns me is his comments saying we will set up this way no matter what. That’s not the sign of a great manager IMO. The best teams need to be able to mix it up, in fact not just in football but in any sport or really any industry. My honest opinion is if he actually does stick to “the style” and nothing else, he will hit a ceiling and become another also ran manager. Most other clubs will probably neither give him the resources or the patience he has had/will get here either so it could become a very slippery slope. But as always TWT.
I guess I'd ask you to cite the last goal we conceded from playing out from the back? I just don't understand the continued fixation on it.
We do mix it up though, Allsop's long balls are very good and he's created multiple chances from them this season. Last 5 before the end of the half if we're winning we switch and go long and it's at least the last 10 if it's the end of the 2nd half too. We don't play short every time.
As Mazzer said, we have been very lucky not to concede from it in recent games. We do mix it up now and again. I’m not saying we don’t. And our chances often come from the more direct passing. I don’t mind possession football, if we are winning. Or away from home against tough opposition. I just believe we would have had more points this season if we’d have played more attacking football. I guess there is no true way of knowing and I am certainly not unhappy with how the season has gone. Nobody has yet to put an argument against my point of why we should continue to play it around the back at home though at the start of a game. I can understand it away from home. I’m genuinely interested as I believe I am right on this one. Anyway, nice to have a debate where there’s no name calling!
People say we've been lucky but we've been 'lucky' for months now. I just don't get why it continues to be a topic of debate when it's clearly been so helpful in attracting better players and advancing our style of play.
If it has attracted better players then fair play. I would argue that giving loan/younger players lots of game time has encouraged others.
Absolutely, but their development and improvement has been as a result of our style of play and development under Liam.
I think the debate about the style of play attracting players has pretty much been put to be now. We’ve said it’s helped us making signing others thought we couldn’t pull off, the incoming players have said it was a reason for wanting to come and top clubs have said it’s a reason they were happy for their players to come to us.
I agree with this. I like most of our style of play. Just not involving the goalkeeper in the passing at the start of the match, at home. Time and a place for it.
A lot of teams defend high up, which I assume is to counter us playing around at the back, so s is part of the press (or maybe something unrelated) which then opens up to Allsopps long ball. That then leads to them defending more deeply which then allows some space in front of the back four. So I’m suggesting he mixes it up so we aren’t as predictable. Edit; and I’ve just realised I’m pissed so that last sentence just states the ****ing obvious. The post makes absolute sense to me otherwise though.
I expected the let down after the scintillating Southhampton display. And we got one but we ground out a well. deserved draw. Seems we struggle to put games to bed. Lot of people had Fabio as the MOTM but I am still not convinced he is better than Abdush or Tufan. Many on this board say we need to break quicker. Well both Tufan and Omur who play in a very similar way, are alway looking for a first time pass to open up the game which allows us to break thru the oppositions defense. At the moment Omur seems to have more success on a minutes played basis than Ozan, but both are superior to Fabio in this respect. Wrong thread sorry
