WAR! What is it good for?

My response for both Russia and Israel is if you don't want to cause trouble don't poke the bear. So putting that in more simple terms, Hamas will know the severe consequences if they ever poke the bear again. Not saying that's right, just saying that's generally what happens. Apart from the remaining hostages that's all Hamas have left to hold on to. There is an easier solution, release all hostages and no more attacks on Israels borders, it really is that simple surely? As for the two state solution, I can't ever see that happening in my lifetime - not saying it can't come to the table, but if you send nutters across a border (7th Oct) it generally has dire consequences when they hit back.

 

I've mentioned it before, but watch what happens next

Massive infrastructure projects in Gaza, sold under the auspices of 'security and stability' for the region.

Lucrative contracts handed out to western players in return for supporting Israel

Let's rebuild and pretend we're doing it for the good of the region.

None of it will be for the benefit of Gazans.

 

I don't agree with Hamas, before @Saf asks me I do think they're terrorists.

But I maintain 100% Putin would have shot up Ukraine no matter what and I don't think we should live in a world were that's OK.

I have a better analogy actually, what the UK did yesterday is the equivalent of acknowledging climate change, so charging 5p for a plastic bag.

 

I don't disagree with you on Putin, he's a lunatic, but I still think the West provoked him to some degree. Same as Hamas provoked that other bear. As you rightly point out our politics means **** all to them, so if that's the case, let's keep our noses out of it, then we'll see how much we mean to them.

 

They'd pay attention if we discussed a trade embargo mind

 

Are any of those hostages realistically still even alive ?

Israel has levelled vast swathes of Gaza to a wasteland and if Hamas were holding them in places where Israel thought Hamas were operating, they’ll likely be under the rubble along with 25,000 other Gazans

Not that Netanyahu gives a **** about them anyway. He practically had to be publicly shamed by the Israeli public to highlight the cause of their missing relatives as his first response was simply to unleash hell on Gaza

My personal opinion is that he couldn’t care about the plight of a few hundred of his own citizens if it gives him the excuse to pummel Gaza. I’d go as far to say that he would have seen that as a golden opportunity.

He might already know that they are all dead, but it still acts as a good leverage to continue the bombing

 

I expect you are right about Netanyahu but that's what happens when genocide joe lets the bear off the lead - he could put him back on his chain if he wanted to, if not then I can't take the US seriosuly as a super power, could you imagine the consequences of some country ignoring Putin lol.

 

btw @PINKIE if you remember I said at the very beginning of this that Israel didn't care about the hostages, so much so CK got the hump with me. Hence if Hamas actually used their initiative it might be seen as an olive branch, but like you allude anyway, probably all dead (so they can't).

 

Conspiracy theories are often just that - a theory - the best ones with elements that do make you stop and think - things that don't quite add up - one for instance might be the ease with which Hamas was able to launch the terrible terrorist attack of October 7th - just a few weeks later the Israeli intelligence was so on point and sophisticated that they could even quote details of telephone conversations between Islamic Jihad members saying 'oh **** - one of our rockets just nearly hit that hospital' - and this before the IDF had actually entered Gaza - so remote intelligence - but obviously incredibly sophisticated and accurate intelligence - yet seemingly that same intelligence capability had no prior suspicion of any build up, terrorist conversations etc, about the complex, obviously well orchestrated, October 7th threat? ... well not until after the event ... something just reeks of dodgy kippers there ...

Now a conspiracy theorist might just pontificate that indeed there was significant intelligence information about a planned threat... but with it also came a unique potential opportunity - a one off generational opportunity to crack an irritating walnut into smithereens...

Good job I'm not a conspiracy theorist then ...

PS where's Abe when you need him

 

Every side at war commits war crimes.

 

But what I really want to know is does our Walshy think that Hamas are freedom fighters or terrorists?

 

True - but that never makes it excusable... and war criminals need to answer for war crimes, be it individual soldiers on the ground ... or heads of state ...

 

Terrorist scum, brother

 

Playing devil's advocate - if a new Palestinian resistance emerges from the ashes; one not steeped in religious doctrine, not dedicated to the eradication of Israel but with the stated objective of expelling foreign invaders / oppressors from Palestinian lands (Gaza and The West Bank) -what would your take be then?

I accept that this is unlikely ...

In terms of parallels, however, both the ANC in South Africa and the IRA (in what is now the Irish Republic) started off as armed resistancane movements that were labelled terrorist organisations - but were thr foundations of the modern countries that now exist.

Just for fun!!

 

Israel is the USA's little pet in the middle east, because they don't want Iran, Lebanon or any of the other players gaining a foothold. So for decades they've been arming Israel to the teeth with $$$$ billions of military aid and giving them carte blanche to act with impunity. Which is why they've allowed an illegal occupation to go unchecked. With that comes the inevitable tensions with Palestine and gives rise to groups like Hamas.

There's no way Genocide Joe, or even less Trump, was going to rein Israel in. They gave them the green light to attack from the beginning with the old mantra 'they have the right to defend themselves' ....only it's not defence, it's genocide with over 25 thousand killed, mainly women and children.

It's a moral vacuum from the US and the West. As I've mentioned before, if the sides were switched and it was Palestine who'd levelled Tel Aviv and killed 25k Israelis, they would have sent in the bombs ages ago to 'neutralise a rouge terrorist state'.

 

Palestinians have a recognized right under international law to resist Israeli occupation under Protocol I of the Geneva Conventions. This right is affirmed in the context of the right of self-determination of all peoples under foreign and colonial rule.

The United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) has expressly affirmed the right of Palestinians to resist Israeli military occupation, including through armed struggle.[5][6] General Assembly resolution A/RES/38/17 (22/11/1983) stated that it "Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for their independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial domination, apartheid and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle".[7]

 

Depends how many kids they behead and rape tbh

 

Terrorist acts targeting civilian populations do not constitute armed struggle, we have been over this before on this thread.

The Hamas terrorist attack is not under any recognised modern law a part of "armed struggle."

The IRA had a right to shoot up British military convoys, they would not have had a right to shoot up Glastonbury

 

I'm not saying it is.

Fosse posed the question about whether another armed resistance group might emerge after Hamas

Not only do Palestinians have the right to armed resistance, it's almost 100% likely that if Hamas are destroyed (which you can't do anyway as it's an ideology) then other group with take their place.

 

If Britain had imposed a regime of control over Ireland similar to the one Israel is placing on Hamas, the IRA would have found it almost impossible to operate within Ireland.

The IRA, ANC and other groups often lazily used as examples when discussing the future, tend to ignore that these had the benefit of the Cold War. A large organization like the USSR willing to equip any anti western group, often, no strings attached.

Hamas, or a copy cat group, would have to first receive arms from a dodgy provider with strict instructions to follow, like Iran, they would have to operate mostly outside of Palestine, and then there is almost no way to fight a conventional armed resistance without resorting to acts of terrorism.

There will always be armed resistance groups in the middle east, unless you lop off heads. That's the rule of law.

The most peaceful nations in the Middle East also happen to have populations like 10% Arab 90% migrant workers, aka majority populations who just don't give a **** about regional issues.