if its a massive 100 point deduction yes. if its explusion then I doubt it as they would be breaking their own prem rules by not relegating the club in 18th. it'd be 3 down and the efl would then have to sort it out with the prem so it's unprecedented and would need negotiating.
'We were right' - UEFA chief makes strong ban claim over Man City FFP charges as Liverpool wait Latest Liverpool news as UEFA president discusses Manchester City FFP case 'We were right' - UEFA chief makes strong ban claim over Man City FFP charges as Liverpool wait - Liverpool Echo
If a club is expelled from the league, there aren't twenty teams so it's impossible for someone to finish 20th
Well that is a good point. It would depend when they are expelled i suppose. Say for example in November 2024 this board sits and hears the statements. It might take until march or may or never to come up with its findings. I would expect that if it sits in 2024/25 (more than 10 years after some cheating went on) then it would be best that the penalties, if any, get applied in 2024/25 If they expel city in march 2025 for example then yes I suppose nobody can finish 20th. If however they apply it after the season ends for sporting integrity then someone will finish 18th, 19th and 20th and then all hell breaks loose what happened in Scotland then may well come into play here. The Scottish premier league put "club 12" into their fixtures computer and votes were held regarding what to do with the new rangers. This took until July. The Scottish premier league clubs then voted to not admit rangers. In city's case they could be expelled from the premier league in November and forced to reapply for the following season. 14 out of 20 clubs would need to vote to let them in. The scottish premier league then had to thing about what to do next to go form 11 to 12 clubs and they actually invited Dundee who finished 2nd in the championship to join rather than ask the relegated dunfermline to stay. This suggest freedom to pick and choose for the English premier league to choose the side in 18th as the play offs make picking a club form the championship difficult imo. the Scottish league seem to have followed this logic down the leagues to rebalance the numbers as Airdrie were asked up to the championship etc. So this seems to give the EFL the choice of what they do with city should they be faced with the problem. The clubs could vote to put them in the championship easily. however some clubs out of pure self interest might want them in league 2 working back up as a few clubs get promoted out of it. Its far far far easier imo to give city a large enough points deduction to relegate them once. It removes all the churn. However its also far far far easier to just fine them.
I only know what I've read and the highlighted bit is taken from the PL rulebook section W, Disciplinary, which lays out procedures, judicial panel, fixed penalties etc. All PL clubs having agreed to these rules are bound by them, knowing that one of the penalties for a serious breach can lead to expulsion. I don't know how a club can get around something it has signed up to but it remains to be seen.
We could go round the houses with this forever so yes, we'll just have to wait and see. As I've said, I don't expect any more than them being sent to the naughty step anyway, so the various scenarios we're discussing probably won't arise.
the issue here is the world is watching. uefa is watching Saudi is watching fifa is watching. each one has their own agenda to drive. the result from the "independent" panel will either decide a free for all is coming or if some sort of sense comes into European football.
Speculation abounds. It's interesting that Ceferin has recently come out and said that UEFA were right about the charges against city - they just couldn't do anything. I have gone from the not much will come of it camp to looking at Everton's punishment, seeing the willingness to tidy up the game in terms of fairness on spending etc. and thinking that a hefty punishment is very likely for city.
Everton haven't won anything since Premier League took over top flight from Football League. Man City have. It's a lot easier to punish Everton because there really isn't any consequence to the PL for doing so. Punishing City IS a big deal. I suspect that's why it took them so long despite it being obvious they were cheating. Personally, I find Chelsea's case interesting. Do you lessen Chelsea's punishment because they self reported the infraction?
I think politics will play a big part in it, like it did in the Post Office scandal. That was different in that it was the government itself covering its own back, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're putting pressure on the inquiry to avoid upsetting the Middle-Eastern nations.
I think he has a cheek coming out and saying that thing is it’s as plain as nose on your face what’s going on at City whilst I don’t think that ffp should exist - city and Newcastle should be able to spend what they want imho, the fact is they can’t. I think Everton and Forest are different animals to city firstly - and I have seen a few say this on here - this allowance the premier league give is not the amount what clubs should be aiming for that’s the wiggle room they should be aiming for £0 upwards. Everton and forest appear to be the clubs getting themselves in a little bit of a mess IF the allegations are correct against City they have gone out of their way to cheat this is totally different. if the allegations are proven (which is where I think this will all fall down because too many other people/companies are complicit in this) then simply put the trophies have to remain but an asterisk has to be put in the record books that they cheated. the club itself needs to be sent to the lowest league and they have to start again as a cautionary tale to others. I would also say the current owners have been proven to be inadequate and a forced sale is pushed through
If they're found guilty, I'll be bitterly disappointed if they're not stripped of all titles they won due to their cheating. I'm expecting to be bitterly disappointed.
Honestly, just them being formally accused and sent to independent commission is far more than I ever hoped for. Them actually being punished would be a major bonus. They absolutely do deserve to be stripped of all titles, relegated (I don't care how far, but relegation should come with stipulation they can't be allowed back in PL for one year per year that multiple offences were committed. So if found guilty of multiple charges in 2 years... Should be barred from promotion back tonPL for two years. If 5 years had multiple violations, should be five years. Won't happen... But that's what they deserve. If they just fine them. Or dock them points. Or relegate for one season. All those players who joined illegally with illegal funds will stick around and City will still have unfair illegal advantage. Any punishment that City receives should be punishing enough they no longer have unfair advantage. If all those illegally acquired players don't jump ship... City hasn't really been punished.
I mean, I don't think FFP should exist either. Never have, and it's always been because I've always doubted it could be enforced. From day one I said it would encourage people to bend the rules and be creative with their books- it only really encourages dishonesty. The fact it does exist makes me want those who break it to pay even more... but, I agree with you that it shouldn't exist. The existence of FFP cements who is at the top of the table and doesn't facilitate movement. It also is unenforceable.
Everton were a lot easier to punish because it was essentially just one offence under investigation. Had city only incurred one offence, they too would have been dealt with quickly. Even if we were talking about 10 or 20 breaches, their case would have been sorted a lot sooner. It's taking a long time because of the enormity. I don't see success as a team playing any part in potential consequences for any team being investigated. Obviously city being under the microscope is big news whereas Everton being investigated isn't but not because they haven't won anything for almost three decades, but rather because theirs was a relatively minor breach. I don't think the panel will have it in mind that punishment can't be too big because it will damage the 'brand'. The 'brand' has asked them to investigate and dole out a suitable punishment for the 'crimes' committed. In fact, the punishment fitting the crime will enhance how the brand is viewed in the wider world. If the league loses city, other than their own fans, who will miss them? There are several other clubs, who have abided by the rules, waiting to fill that void. The league's appeal doesn't rest on city. Youngsters just getting interested in English football and supporting the current most successful team aside, the biggest English clubs are Liverpool and utd with Arsenal probably having more worldwide appeal than city. With regard to Chelsea - acting in good faith by self reporting will go in the plus column but on balance, the minus column will be far longer.
Everton won the FA cup. My view here is City is a case where they have denied, blocked and refused point blank to cooperate in any form or shape. This on its own is a massive issue. This has to be dealt with as the line in the sand to all future owners that this kind of messing is not tolerated. If the saudis want to may 100mil to footballers up and down their league they can work away. thats their issue. If they want to buy european football like they've bought golf, wwe, boxing, etc etc then they have to be eithe rput on a level field within rules or let buy the sport and we all stop watching. it can't be both. Chelsea is a slightly different issue as the club was sold and the owners are now pulling thier own stunts. My view on this is every single title won should be stripped especially the CLs. This doesn't punish the current owners but their time will come on their own stunts. Every year where these things were found and reported should lose all trophies. Everton and forest are another type of case. Other are guilty of playing with the numbers and declaring what they declared. Neither have blocked or failed to co-operate. everton tried to put everything against coivd, got advice of 170 losses and then put in 220 trying it on. they failed to sell enough players to balance it twice. Forest have tried to claim they would have complied but spurs were shafting them so they sold Johnson in a different year but the supposed value should be movable to when they "would have sold" It 10 points too harsh? Quite probably. If a club bascially goes bust and goes to administration then they get 10 or 15 points. To be "ok" but over a threshold of serious breach by 20mil is also 10 then surely going to administration is a bigger penalty? Do I have any sympathy? No not really. Both had the opportunity to fix it and didn't so got caught as the example now
If you stripped them would you reallocate or leave blank I would leave blank If they had a wall like ours I would say they cannot put up the trophies they won whilst cheating Think that of another club too lmao
I'm 100% on leave them vacated. it's a shameful period in English football that's actually now nearly 20 years long with oil money not only dominating but cheating massively to dominate. they they simply threw cash about in fornt of everyone and broke no rules doing so fair enough but both broke the small about of rules there were what nobody seems to care about is that the paying public pay massive ticket prices, massive subscriptions etc to feed this bubble of money driving clubs feeding this.
Blank. If a team has been found to be acting illegally then there are possible repercussions throughout the league because they've played everybody. Someone would have to go through every game they played and reallocate the points and who knows what can of worms that would open? The relegation places could be affected as much as the top. The title could default to the second-placed team, but I don't see many of our fans genuinely wanting that. It's an unholy mess, and they should have the book thrown at them if found guilty, as they'll have damaged the reputation and the integrity of the league.
Leave blank. Those tournaments are effectively null and void. You can't say "well x would have won it instead" because we don't know. Whose momentum was stopped because of City? Who would have done things differently. You can asign the winner to who finished second or the other cup finalist. The whole thing has to be left blank. And from a fans perspective anyway? What use is a title from years ago anyway? It's not like we can celebrate it now.
