Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Goldhawk-Road]

whats wrong with putting illegal immigrants on the first ferry back to france

This would be Reform UK's policy, as outlined by its head, Richard Tice. If France took back all illegal returns, the problem would be solved immediately imo, not just for the UK but also for French people living around Calais and along the north coast of France. Macron is effectively encouraging migrants to come up through France

The Tice strategy will come eventually imo, but not before 5 years of woke under Starmer

 

[qprbeth]

The big word here Goldie is IF.

If we put immigrants back onto Ferries to France. Immigration in France would just deny them entry, and send them back to us ( they haven't got the right paperwork). We would also deny them entry...for same reason...they would be in limbo on the boat....very very very quickly the ferries would stop taking them...deny them entry.

So it just would not happen.


And why should France or any one "take them back" anyhow... they are illegal.

They have enough of a problem ( bigger than ours) with illegal immigrants.


Tice suggestion/ policy is just air, not sensible, won't work.

I have no real solution either to be honest...except process everyone ( try and establish proper proceessing centres in france fir people who want to vome here ( undercutting the gangs)..and get return policies in place.


We do need people to come in a work...but then we need the infrastructure to deal with them..one of the many things the Tories have failed at

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

This would be Reform UK's policy, as outlined by its head, Richard Tice. If France took back all illegal returns, the problem would be solved immediately imo, not just for the UK but also for French people living around Calais and along the north coast of France. Macron is effectively encouraging migrants to come up through France

The Tice strategy will come eventually imo, but not before 5 years of woke under Starmer

Reform’s zero seats (maybe one if they convince enough rancid old gits somewhere **** like Clacton) won’t put them in much of a position to influence this.

The right wing press are already bemoaning a “secret deal” - so secret they know about it- Starmer has to return small boats should Labour win.

 

[simonstainrod]

The big word here Goldie is IF.

If we put immigrants back onto Ferries to France. Immigration in France would just deny them entry, and send them back to us ( they haven't got the right paperwork). We would also deny them entry...for same reason...they would be in limbo on the boat....very very very quickly the ferries would stop taking them...deny them entry.

So it just would not happen.


And why should France or any one "take them back" anyhow... they are illegal.

They have enough of a problem ( bigger than ours) with illegal immigrants.


Tice suggestion/ policy is just air, not sensible, won't work.

I have no real solution either to be honest...except process everyone ( try and establish proper proceessing centres in france fir people who want to vome here ( undercutting the gangs)..and get return policies in place.


We do need people to come in a work...but then we need the infrastructure to deal with them..one of the many things the Tories have failed at

Incredible how the Tories with the help of the right wing press have turned the boats into a seemingly huge and problematic issue. It isn't at all. It's a deflection from all their failings, with the immigrants being a handy scapegoat for all 'our' problems.
It's a fact that under the Tories the UK is worse off than a decade ago, with Brits £10k poorer.
It's a fact that from 2010-20, the Tories have reduced core funding to councils from £41billion to £26billion in real terms.
That's why this country is falling apart - schools crumbling, councils going bust, public services on their knees.
Nothing to do with immigrants.
Don't be bought off by a few tax cuts and the shameless scapegoating of immigrants. Just get the lying, incompetent, corrupt b******s out and let's have a government that works for all of us, not just their rich mates who bankroll them.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Reform’s zero seats (maybe one if they convince enough rancid old gits somewhere **** like Clacton) won’t put them in much of a position to influence this.

The right wing press are already bemoaning a “secret deal” - so secret they know about it- Starmer has to return small boats should Labour win.

Starmer won't return the boats - he's going to try and do a deal with the EU. They'll mug him off and we'll end up with an even larger allocation.

Reform's influence, is indirect in the next GE. The Tories won't be returned to government in the future by pretending to be liberals. That's why Jenrick and Braverman are lining up for leadership attempts (in opposition)

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

The big word here Goldie is IF.

If we put immigrants back onto Ferries to France. Immigration in France would just deny them entry, and send them back to us ( they haven't got the right paperwork). We would also deny them entry...for same reason...they would be in limbo on the boat....very very very quickly the ferries would stop taking them...deny them entry.

So it just would not happen.


And why should France or any one "take them back" anyhow... they are illegal.

They have enough of a problem ( bigger than ours) with illegal immigrants.


Tice suggestion/ policy is just air, not sensible, won't work.

I have no real solution either to be honest...except process everyone ( try and establish proper proceessing centres in france fir people who want to vome here ( undercutting the gangs)..and get return policies in place.


We do need people to come in a work...but then we need the infrastructure to deal with them..one of the many things the Tories have failed at

Tice's idea is not to put them on ferries, but actually turn the boats back mid-Channel. He's quoted some international law that allows us to do that, and says no one has told him he's wrong. Personally, I don't know what the legal position is, but if he's right, we're going to be hearing a lot about during the GE

As for infrastructure, do you honestly think that Labour, reliant again on the Red Wall, is going to build a city the size of Birmingham every 2 or 3 years? They'll probably grant an amnesty, but we'll just have more overcrowding, homeless and dissatisfaction

 

[bobmid]

Tice's idea is not to put them on ferries, but actually turn the boats back mid-Channel. He's quoted some international law that allows us to do that, and says no one has told him he's wrong. Personally, I don't know what the legal position is, but if he's right, we're going to be hearing a lot about during the GE

As for infrastructure, do you honestly think that Labour, reliant again on the Red Wall, is going to build a city the size of Birmingham every 2 or 3 years? They'll probably grant an amnesty, but we'll just have more overcrowding, homeless and dissatisfaction

Very humane of him. Sounds a right nice bloke

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Incredible how the Tories with the help of the right wing press have turned the boats into a seemingly huge and problematic issue. It isn't at all. It's a deflection from all their failings, with the immigrants being a handy scapegoat for all 'our' problems.
It's a fact that under the Tories the UK is worse off than a decade ago, with Brits £10k poorer.
It's a fact that from 2010-20, the Tories have reduced core funding to councils from £41billion to £26billion in real terms.
That's why this country is falling apart - schools crumbling, councils going bust, public services on their knees.
Nothing to do with immigrants.
Don't be bought off by a few tax cuts and the shameless scapegoating of immigrants. Just get the lying, incompetent, corrupt b******s out and let's have a government that works for all of us, not just their rich mates who bankroll them.

Will invite you to our leftie wokes’ PM club.

 

[Stroller]

This would be Reform UK's policy, as outlined by its head, Richard Tice. If France took back all illegal returns, the problem would be solved immediately imo, not just for the UK but also for French people living around Calais and along the north coast of France. Macron is effectively encouraging migrants to come up through France

The Tice strategy will come eventually imo, but not before 5 years of woke under Starmer

What forms of 'woke' would you say we can look forward to under Starmer?

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Very humane of him. Sounds a right nice bloke

Something similar happening all across Europe

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

What forms of 'woke' would you say we can look forward to under Starmer?

I expect him to drop to his knees a lot, and struggle when asked a difficult question like what a woman is. His defence of all the **** coming from the National Trust isn't encouraging either. They'll be a continual stream of virtue-signalling and self-flaggellating coming out of Downing Street. I won't miss this Tory Government, but I'm not optimistic about what will replace it either

 

[qprbeth]

Something similar happening all across Europe

All across Europe don't have 22 miles of often rough and nasty sea.
One thing to say to a refugeee, you are not coming across this line drawn in the sand here


Another to stop a rapidly deflating boat in the middle of a storm at night in the dark and say "excuse me sir, I would like you to turn back", and give them a push with a boat hook...that is tantamount to murder...sorry manslaughter

 

[Stroller]

I expect him to drop to his knees a lot, and struggle when asked a difficult question like what a woman is. His defence of all the **** coming from the National Trust isn't encouraging either. They'll be a continual stream of virtue-signalling and self-flaggellating coming out of Downing Street. I won't miss this Tory Government, but I'm not optimistic about what will replace it either

Nothing real then.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

All across Europe don't have 22 miles of often rough and nasty sea.
One thing to say to a refugeee, you are not coming across this line drawn in the sand here


Another to stop a rapidly deflating boat in the middle of a storm at night in the dark and say "excuse me sir, I would like you to turn back", and give them a push with a boat hook...that is tantamount to murder...sorry manslaughter

That sounds dramatic, Beth. The UK authorities would have responsibility for the safety of those in the boat, presumably until it reached French soil or French naval authorities took over. The Turks, Greeks and Spanish will have similar considerations. These are extreme measures, but we have an increasingly extreme situation. England is about the most densely populated of the larger countries in Europe, and most refugees remain in the south or London

 

[Stroller]

That sounds dramatic, Beth. The UK authorities would have responsibility for the safety of those in the boat, presumably until it reached French soil or French naval authorities took over. The Turks, Greeks and Spanish will have similar considerations. These are extreme measures, but we have an increasingly extreme situation. England is about the most densely populated of the larger countries in Europe, and most refugees remain in the south or London

The UK birth rate has been falling consistently for 15 years, so without immigration the population would be decreasing. You may say that that would be a good thing, but there would be a hugely negative impact on the economy with an aging population and not enough people to do the jobs.

 

[qprbeth]

That sounds dramatic, Beth. The UK authorities would have responsibility for the safety of those in the boat, presumably until it reached French soil or French naval authorities took over. The Turks, Greeks and Spanish will have similar considerations. These are extreme measures, but we have an increasingly extreme situation. England is about the most densely populated of the larger countries in Europe, and most refugees remain in the south or London

How easily we forget how the Greeks caused the death of so many immigrants in the Mediterranean last autumn.

They weren't escorting them anywhere.

As a nation I dint want that on my conscience

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

The UK birth rate has been falling consistently for 15 years, so without immigration the population would be decreasing. You may say that that would be a good thing, but there would be a hugely negative impact on the economy with an aging population and not enough people to do the jobs.

The UK population increased by 4 million to 67 million in the decade to 2021.

In an increasingly mechanised world, on the cusp of major changes due to AI, the last thing we need is devise a Ponzi scheme for our dense population

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

How easily we forget how the Greeks caused the death of so many immigrants in the Mediterranean last autumn.

They weren't escorting them anywhere.

As a nation I dint want that on my conscience

Survivors said the Greek boat was attempting to tow the migrant vessel. How about blaming organised crime?

 

[kiwiqpr]

All across Europe don't have 22 miles of often rough and nasty sea.
One thing to say to a refugeee, you are not coming across this line drawn in the sand here


Another to stop a rapidly deflating boat in the middle of a storm at night in the dark and say "excuse me sir, I would like you to turn back", and give them a push with a boat hook...that is tantamount to murder...sorry manslaughter

pick them up at sea
then destroy the dingy
if they are on the french side send em back to france
if they are on the uk side send em back to france
we seem quite capable controlling the red sea
the english channel should be a piece of piss

if people are needed then make the application process easier
otherwise who will sell stan his costa or look after stroller in the old folks home

 

[qprbeth]

Survivors said the Greek boat was attempting to tow the migrant vessel. How about blaming organised crime?

Not what I heard.

According to investigations completed by the BBC and News 24/7, contradicting the Greek coastguard's account of the incident, the boat had not moved for at least seven hours before sinking.[21][22] A New York Times investigation found that the authorities watched and listened for 13 hours as the boat lost power and drifted aimlessly.[15] An investigation by the Washington Post retraced the Adriana's route on the Mediterranean Sea and reported that decisions taken by the HCG had contributed to the tragedy.[7]

A joint investigative team of researchers and journalists, including Solomon, the Forensis research group—a sister organisation of Forensic Architecture—The Guardian, Der Spiegel, and the German national broadcaster, ARD[76] examined court documents, sources from the coastguards, as well as survivors' interviews and found evidence contradicting the HCG's original reports.[23] Other sources for their investigative reporting included "distress signals, videos and photographs by the HCG, Frontex, and nearby commercial vessels as well as logs and testimonies."[77] They said that the Greek coastguard is responsible for the sinking.[13][16][24] The joint investigation by Solomon, Forensis, the StrgF/ARD, and The Guardian won the European Parliaments 2023 Daphne Caruana Galizia Prize for investigating the Adriana shipwreck.[78]

An investigation by the BBC alleged that the coastguard pressured the survivors of the wreck to frame the Egyptians as the smugglers.[47] A joint investigation by Lighthouse Reports, Der Spiegel, SIRAJ, El País and Reporters United has revealed that a Libyan network with ties to Khalifa Haftar, was responsible for the smuggling.[79]