I completely agree with you about that, I would love to see them get a chance. I guess there is something in training that Jewel isn't happy with. Having seen Tommy Smith play I think it shows just because we have some promising players in the squad it doesn't mean they are ready to play in the first team (no offence to the lad). I'm not saying Jewel is perfect, I just think he should be given time to build the squad he wants and then he can live with the consequences.
Mate if I could be assed I'd dig out the post I did the other week you posted about 2 months ago saying you where sure Jewell was the right man to take the club forwards.
A week is a long time in football let alone politics! I want Jewell to be the right man to take us forwards but after watching 4 out of the last 5 poor displays and with no imediate sign of improvement it would test the patience of a Saint! I'm not saying that we should be winning every game but at least ****ing well compete that's all I'm asking!
Collins could choose to stay in the midlands if he gets an offer elsewhere, although Andrews is more likely to sign. Stockdale will never sign, Daryl Murphy might as well not be here because he's played once or twice and been injured the rest of the time and Wabara has had one start. We're not overly reliant on loanees as you seem to make out. Jewell arrived in January and his priority was to keep us up, I doubt he spent much if any time scouting young players until the season ended, that might have been short sighted but it was imperitive he gave the relegation fight his full attention. Unfortunately he was only able to bring in two young players but I'm confident more will follow come Jan following the scouting Jewell and his team have been doing, if we don't see the right type of players come in Jewell will get a lot of grief from the fans. I don't think we should criticise Jewell for the players he has or hasn't been able to bring in, it's the tactics and lack of faith in the youth players we have that he deserves criticism for. Every town fan I talk to agrees the diamond needs to be dropped and Bullard can't play as a defensive mid but Jewell persists. I get the feeling that Jewell doesn't want to play certain youngsters as he doesn't trust them, probably feels we'll end up with another Pboro performance but that was down to inexperience all over the park, all we want is Hyam, a natural defensive mid, to play with all the other experienced pros.
i still think you are pretty reliant on loans. they make a large part of the spine of your team. keeper, centre half and centre midfielder. thats three major players you'd have to replace with equal or better players in january if they don't return AND you want to improve the rest of the team on top of that... its a big ask! the problem with loanees and older players is its very hard to improve them on the training pitch - time is limited. no offence but your comment about giving the relegation battle his full attention is nonsense. any decent manager will constantly be looking at how and where he can improve his team and building a list of targets. its very naive to do otherwise and surely an experienced manager wouldn't choose to do so. from what i've heard the lad hyam is a decent talent and i'm surprised that he doesn't get a game for you
Some good debate on here. Superman even though I don't think things are quite as bad as you point out, well maybe they are but I don't think a large proportion can be blamed on Jewell. I was on 606 and not 606 for the past 2 years arguing that Keane would ruin us, and people said give him more time but the trouble is giving him more time made it well and truely sure that he put us in a position which would take years to get out of. Any manager who came in would have the same problems(I have no doubt) that Jewell is experiencing now. I always had the fear that fans gave Keane so much patience that when we finally got a decent manager in charge things would be pretty bad that results were always like to be bad to start with, that they would take it out on the new manager. When IMO this year was always going to be a difficult season whoever we had in charge and whoever we got it. Yes there are some strange decisions some which I just really cannot understand but with little continuity at the club over the past few months its hardly surprising. We will have to keep rebuilding and this includes next summer, if Jewell has the chance I would say that it won't be until next january before we really start to see a team that we all want to see. I'm not in favour of getting loan players, like last year was just ridiculous but I think we now do actually need them and yes it is a sad state that after spending so much money how the hell are we in this situation. The club has been in decline since Evans has taken over and perhaps it was always going to happen trying to get acclimatised to the new found wealth and expectations, rarely does a club who suddenly gets alot of money do well. We were in serious decline for around 2 years whilst Keane was here and I mean serious decline, the first 6 months Jewell was in charge he didn't have alot to work with and put all his efforts on keeping us in the league and perhaps contract negotiations with our players. This gave him little time over the summer to really have a wide scope to get players in and IMO he did extremely well in actracting the calibre of players in that he did for the amount of money we spent and lets be honest what was really here for them to come to?? Iagree superman its a big ask, but it was always going to be that way!! I think we need to get this season out of the way and I'm not entirely sure that January will be the best time to do business. I see us having a similar season to last year tbh and pushing on toward the playoffs at the end but just missing out. Next summer and next season may not even be the time when we really challenge, but I think we will start to get a proper team together finally and flirt with the playoffs. Whichever way you look at it we are a long long way from being the finished article, thats if we keep Jewell, get a new manager, or even would have appointed someone else. Yes there are some strange decisions Jewell has made regarding tactics and substitutions but I fail to remember an Ipswich manager since I have been supporting them who hasn't had alot of fans guzumped by there decision making. If we can currently stop the rot with our poor run of results I'm pretty confident of a decent future for us. JWM I'm going to judge you now, so sorry if I get this wrong, but I'm going to take a bet that you were probably one of the fans being most vocal about getting rid of Sheepshanks, probably Royle aswell(there was a large set of fans calling for his sacking int the last few months.)??
Its not nonsense, any manager would tell you it's hard to scout players when you're not sure what league you're going to be in. You had the same problem yourself but Lambert decided just to get in the championship level players anyway. In any case I never said Jewell was a decent manager. The jury is still out but I think its harsh to be calling for his head this early, lets see what improvements he makes in January after he's had a decent amount of time to scout some younger talent. I'm surprised Hyam doesn't get a game as well, he's not a world beater but he's the only specialist defensive midfielder we have and thats what we're crying out for, someone to give Bullard and co the freedom they need to get things going in attack.
ptc, naturally you lot all know more than i do about the state of your club right now. i can only view it from the outside but to me it seems exactly the same mistakes are being made under jewell as were under keane. the club doesn't seem to be learning from those mistakes. it may be a case that it needs a bit of tinkering to get right or it may need a major overhaul but the comparisons with norwich 2009 are stark which is why myself and any other stray budgies on your board will point them out. the advantage you have over us is that you have funding but you cannot count on a bloke who nobody knows the intentions of bailing you out forever. you HAVE to be promoted in the near future under the current regime or your club will crumble and not even the majority of city fans would want to see that! he won't have a bottomless pit and he certainly will have a business brain - that means he could cut his losses. your club still owe him a fortune. better than owing it to a bank i suppose but is it really - at least you know who a bank are, even if most of them are thieving bastards! there are a number of clubs in the championship who feel they are a premier league club in all but name and you are one of those. you can't all go up! it could take another ten years. my main point throughout this thread is asking the question, do any of you actually know what your clubs strategy is to 'get up', 'stay up' and 'stay there'? to me it looks like a case of throw money at it and see what happens. its such a scattergun approach!
sven, i take your point about not knowing which league you were going to be in, but that is why you build lists and develop a number of options in the transfer market. honestly, every manager does this as far as i know. they have a scouting network. i don't know enough about how you are playing to judge jewell. my old man went to your match at the city ground and say you were dire but you did have a decent run earlier in the season. i was merely asking whether his ideas make sense and if he's moving your club forwards or not. there should be signs by now of progress i would have thought but from the outside it looks like you've crept sideways at best
I think you're underestimating the time it takes to efficiently scout a young player. In my opinion Jewell took the right approach in getting in players who knew alot about as a quick fix to buy himself some time to scout for younger players. You can't compare it to Roeders time at Norwich. Roeder had no past success of getting clubs promoted from our league and was a cack manager with far more loans than we had. Jewell is ten times the manager he is but is still prone to making mistakes.
sven, i've worked as a scout before so i know all about it, and believe it or not, glenn roeder was a scout at arsenal for wenger before we snapped him up just goes to show that just cos you have an eye for a player, it doesn't necessarily transgress into management and signing them!
Superman your views are always welcome here and I think it can help with an outside point of view. I can see many parallels with your spell under Roeder and can understand the reasons we have concern. The only main difference I can see, which I think is a rather major factor is that we are only 7 points away from the play offs so early in the season. I cant deny we should be in a better position with our spending power and our experience on the pitch but its a hit and miss league at present and if we can get back to consistency again we should be safe. We are not going to world beaters this season but we are also not in a desperate situation
no, no! i worked at peterborough united for a spell and also west ham briefly. don't do it anymore but still take in plenty of football when i can! certainly a fun job but you don't half do the miles!! i did have contact with norwich (bizarrely when roeder was in charge) but nothing ever came of it tractorbhoy just so you know, on this date the year we were relegated we were 8 points from the play offs and 4 from the drop zone. you guys are 7 and 4 respectively. totally irrelevant i'm sure but i thought i'd point it out! http://www.canaries.co.uk/page/LeagueTable/0,,10355~20081122,00.html
Thanks for reply. It may not be totally irrelevant. Its a difficult to say with things so tight at the moment. In my mind its definately far from clear cut what to do.
much will depend on whether jewell is capable of taking you to the premier league. if you think he is then he has to be given time, whether it be 1 year, 2 years or 5 years. personally i have held the opinion that he is bang average, middle of the road. i put him in the same bracket as iain dowie, phil brown, gary megson and aidy boothroyd, even steve cotterill who i think will struggle at forest, all living off a past success years ago that they may or may not ever replicate. nice bloke, good pundit, talks the talk etc but so does boothroyd and he's not a good manager.
His tactical knowlege, starting line ups and use of subs has been poor so far but that may be due to lack of options. He's been excellent in the transfer market in terms of getting bargains in and his man management is top class. Not all have agreed with the way he's treated Carson and Martin but it seems to have the desired effect, both are now fighting for a place in the team and even Priskin is putting effort in in training to try and get a first team place (according to reports). He seems to know how to get the best out of players in terms of man managing but it's how he uses them on the pitch that lets him down. My feeling is that Jewell will turn us into a side which is fighting for promotion but it will not be this season. We were all agreed on this at the start of the season but the 6 games we had where we ended up a win from second in the table combined with the intermitent hammerings seem to have transformed peoples expectations. We are either doomed or going to win the league, time for some to take a step back and realise where we are.
JWM I'm going to judge you now, so sorry if I get this wrong, but I'm going to take a bet that you were probably one of the fans being most vocal about getting rid of Sheepshanks, probably Royle aswell(there was a large set of fans calling for his sacking int the last few months.)?? ====================================================== This couldn't be more further from the truth. I have often written articles on this board praising Joe Royle and the near miracles he performed when guiding us through the trauma of relegation and the subsequent administration that followed. Sheepshanks loves this club and I applaud him for the vision he showed in bringing in George and formulating the famous 5 year plan. Yes he went a bit mad at the end with cash but I didn't hear many fans at the time complaining. The only fault with Sheepshanks is that he showed too much ambition which ultilmately lead to decline.
I know there are many people I know that when we were struggling under Royle wanted him out and there was a fairly large vocal crowd for this. The same goes with Sheepshanks, he was the main problem at Ipswich and should leave, there was a very large vocal majority who thought this. And I now know many of these who seem to look back and say how brilliant they were, when these were the same people who wanted them out of the club, I think it shows the fickle nature of alot of fans. What I am trying to say is the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Superman, I think the main difference between our 2 clubs over the past couple of years has been one thing your decision to probably appoint the best manager you've ever had and Ipswich decision to appoint the worst manager we have ever had. We can say there are problems behind the scenes but I don't think at the current time that is such a big problem at Ipswich and perhaps there are problems behind the scenes at Norwich but because they are doing well, people don't really think about them. Like I say the main difference between our clubs is the appointment of 2 very different managers. They are the main men at clubs at the end of the day and without Lambert you could well be 3 leagues below what you are now and if he leaves you, things definitely would not be soo rosy. For us the opposite happened we made completely the wrong decision and are paying for it now. Clearly the argument is not as simple as I am suggesting but for me these are probably the 2 major factors between our success's and failures over the past couple of years!!!
To my mind one of the biggest mistakes Sheepy made was to appoint the cheapest option in hiring Magilton as manager! I don't care what anyone says but you can't have a player suddenly elevated to Manager as it doesn't make for a harmonious dressing room. Magilton had his favourites and his fall outs with the players he didn't get on with. Sheepshanks should have appointed an experienced manager who eventually would have been fully able to use the Evans cash far more effectively. As I keep on saying if Joe Royle had been around at the time of the Evans takeover he would now be managing Town in the Premiership. I have absolutely no doubt about that. The squandering of the millions by a rookie manager and then compounded by a second rookie manager has led to this nightmare. I don't blame Jewell for any of that but what I do blame him for is tactical ineptness bordering on negligence. The constant blame game he plays for lack of pace and defensive frailties and yet he is doing nothing to change things! Jewell is definately not the man to take us forward and after 2 years out of the game he is out of his depth in this job.
