Yes Hamas terrorists murdered three people when they gunned down 2 elderly and a woman in her 20's and yes it was while a ceasefire was supposed to be in force. The IDF murdered two people the day before when they shot an 8 year old in the head and a 15 year old in the chest and yes it was ALSO while a ceasefire was supposedly in force. And the IDF had also murdered 37 other civilians in the other 6 days the ceasefire was supposedly in force. And that doesn't include the IDF snipers who murdered two others using a road traveling to Southern Gaza ALSO during a ceasefire that was supposed to be in force. Yes we are very fortunate not to be living in a country where acts of Hamas style terrorism isn't common place. We're also very fortunate not to live under illegal occupation under the whim of far right fascists in Israel and where acts of IDF style terrorism isn't common place. It's a sad situation.
And this is why everyone calling for UK politicians to demand a ceasefire was stupid. Neither side was going to actually follow one and both broke previous ceasefires. Should they all stop killing each other? Obviously. Do they give a **** about what some councillors from up north think? Not in the slightest.
The ceasefire largely held. And the thing that matters is thousands of lives for those 7 days were saved. Hostages were released. People got medicine, food, water and other aid. As well as peaceful existent for that week. Also it isn't about the influence, but a point of principle. Either we believe in something or we don't. Whether saying something has any influence isn't the point, staying silent definitely does. What do they say, for evil to succeed...
is for good men to pretend to do something? Israel had to be given the option to look strong after the Hamas attack. They were never going to do anything else, as it would've been disastrous domestically. I can't stand their government, but making public demands of them at that time wouldn't work. Biden played it correctly and the UK had to follow his lead. Things are almost certainly going to get worse before they get better, unfortunately. Some of those involved in the conflict want that.
I agree they had to look strong and go after Hamas. But the manner they've gone about it is obscene. It also imo highlighted one of two things - either an element of cowardice not to send ground troops in, or a desire to use the Hamas attack to exert maximum death and destruction. The problem is I don't see what the aim of restarting this war is. They'll kill as many Hamas fighters as they can (whilst killing 12 times as many civilians if the data is correct) but they won't eradicate Hamas and it won't free the hostages.
Netanyahu's currently on trial for corruption. Having something distract from this is rather useful for him on a personal level. If he can get some political wins out of it then great. If not, then at least this isn't the news focus. Hostage negotiation is always tricky, anyway. You don't want to encourage more hostage taking.
I think it's widely regarded that once the conflict is over, so's his political career. He'll never be forgiven for the Hamas attack under his supposed watch. Of course the cynic in me thinks that may be a driver for him to keep the war going as long as possible for this reason.
If the IDF shooting the guy was a one-off that would be one thing The issue is that it was anything buy a one-off incident to see Israeli forces completely out of control, for example the Israeli police responding to orthodox jews in Jerusalem flying the Palestinian flag by beating the **** out of them in public, not even seeming to care that they were being filmed doing so Same goes for the ISF being very casual in killing aid workers, journalists and UN peacekeepers, which is such a common occurrence not just in the last six weeks but the last 25 years that the only logical conclusions is either members of the IDF have such a murder boner that they will indiscriminately fire on anyone or anything in front of them and make excuses for it later, or they just don't care that they're shooting anything that moves Also, though unintentional, you highlighted the issues with how so much of this is being framed: the Israelis repeatedly violated the ceasefire, in fact they violated the ceasefire within an hour of it beginning by teargassing Palestinians outside the prison where Palestinians were being held, and within the first few hours killed two Palestinians by opening fire on Palestinians returning to Gaza City, Israeli snipers were taking potshots at Palestinians in Gaza, and more Palestinians were shot and killed in Gaza, yet the fact you have to truffle around for mention of these while the Israeli version of events continues to be the one presented Which brings me to the big one: okay, so you know how the response to any criticism is "But what about October 7th" over and over and over and over and over and over again, as if that is some kind of justification for murdering 15,000+ people in the course of six weeks? That also underlines the issues with the framing, as that pretends nothing happened on September 17th What happened on September 17th, you ask? Why, that would be Israeli settlers marching on the Al-Aqsa mosque compound behind a phalanx of Israeli police, Israeli police who promptly assaulted the Palestinians who were there - and there were very few, what with Israeli police banning any Palestinian under the age of 50 from worshipping there, meaning they got to feel like big men (and women) beating up old people. And why did the Israeli police impose such draconian measures? Why that was in response to April 5th, where Jewish settlers ignored a ban on Jewish prayer at Al-Aqsa and decided they would celebrate Passover in the traditional way by sacrificing a goat on the grounds of the mosque compound, which is a blatantly inflammatory given they ignored a ban and decided to say "Our God is bigger than your God" during Ramadan - and Likud were happy to goad this on, as National Security Minister (whose visit to Temple Mount did the unthinkable and drew actual criticism from Joe Biden) Itamar Ben-Gvir said they should absolutely march into the grounds and celebrate Passover in their faces. Naturally, this ended with Israeli police wading into the mosque itself and dragging people out, clubs swinging all the time When their military is out of control, their police are out of control, and their government is actively encouraging West Bank settlers to actively antagonise Palestinians, that is not a functioning society no matter how much of the West Bank they try to landgrab while telling people to keep looking at Gaza
You know, I think this should be getting reported on just a little bit more, given the randy Honey Monster was planning on invading Holland during the middle of the pandemic to British Museum their vaccine supplies
I hope he is gone, but events embolden the hard right unfortunately. This was never going to improve relations. Previously his coalition was on shaky ground, but wars tend to bring nations together under the existing government (see Falklands etc).
Since the climate change deniers (who just so happen to be big supporters of Brexit) are claiming that carbon omissions are helping the environment because George Carlin said that in a skit once, it's time to break out the clip again...
Interesting piece in The Lancet which asks two very interesting questions i.) What happened in 2010 that saw the average height of British children drop sharply ever since? ii.) What happened in 2016 which saw the average height of American children take an even sharper drop overnight? And no, the solution is not telling somebody to make sandwiches instead of buying them a pub lunch...
Which misrepresents the situation, not that I think there's any point in trying to discuss it, but here goes. Perhaps most importantly there is no context. Al-Asqa may be the third holiest site in Islam, but it is built on Temple Mount, which is the holiest site in Judaism. This is the site of the two most important temples Jews ever built, of which the Western Wall, part of the second temple, is all that remains. The mosque was built over the temple(s) site, which of course demonstrates that Jews preceded Muslims in the area by many centuries. Despite this, Israel has agreed to limit visitors to four hours per day on four days per week. Secondly 17 September was one of the days in which visits were allowed and more than this is was Rosh Hashanah, one of the Jewish "High Holy Days". Worshipers are limited to over 50 years olds *from time to time* for the very practical reason is that riots keep starting there, with younger palestinians hurling various objects down from the mount, and also barricading themselves inside. Not very respectful of the third holiest site in Islam is it? Your paragraph might be read that only over 50s are *ever* allowed to prey, which is not the case. There seems to have been some violence and three worshipers may have been injured. Here is a picture of the "phalanx of of Israeli police... who promptly assaulted the Palestinians..." Source is WAFA, the *Palestinian news agency*. Don't you think they would have used a picture with more .... violence in it if they had one? You also refer to the "goat sacrifice" of 5 April and suggested that this is the traditional way of celebrating Passover. Again it could be read that you suggest such things happen now when they don't. Indeed, a goat did not get sacrificed did it (although I remember seeing a recent picture of Hamas killing a goat painted with the Star of David). Certainly a small ultra religious group has called for animal sacrifice on Temple Mount, but there are extremists in all religions aren't there? Or am I not allowed to suggest there are extremist Muslims? Unless you are suggesting that this extremist group somehow represents all Israel, which is like me saying Hamas represents Palestine, or Muslims in general. Plus 5 April was a Wednesday meaning visiting is allowed. As for Itamar Ben-Gvir, he should probably have kept quiet, but are you suggesting that when Passover coincides with Ramadan then Jews should not be to visit Temple Mount? The holiest Jewish site on a very important festival? Plus you missed the bit where he said there must be no animal sacrifice. The part about our god / your god is purely your inference. I don't intend to respond to many postings on this thread, and probably won't reply to any response because it would be a full time job (not because there are not things to say!) But for those reading that like to think they have an open mind, there is another side to any story.
There is no misrepresentation of the situation: Israeli settlers were banned from celebrating Passover there during Ramadan, yet they showed up en masse with a police guard - with the National Security Minister urging them to do so Coincidentally, here's a photo of Al-Aqsa taken during April, which demonstrates the heavy presence of Israeli forces (I was trying to use this one, but for some reason the image no-shows) please log in to view this image Now here's one from July please log in to view this image Here's on from September (again, as WAFA images don't seem to copy) please log in to view this image And finally, here's one from October please log in to view this image That's a lot of people in military-grade garb toting guns and/or batons, and in at least two of the images they don't appear to be maintaining a perimeter which is what they should be doing, instead they seem to be marching around swinging their metaphorical dicks around However, here are a whole bunch of misrepresentations in your response: * Al-Aqsa has been on the site it occupies since sometime between the 7th and 8th century AD, which the last time I checked was a lot earlier than 1948 - but the key thing about this is that, at some point between 1948-2023 there must have been at least one other instance of Ramadan and Passover occurring in the same period, so were there similar flareups? * Coincidentally, April was not the first provocative flareup at Al-Aqsa: in 2021 Israeli settlers broke an agreement between Israel and Jordan and read from the Torah in a part of the temple which is off limits to non-Muslims, with the Israeli police once again demonstrating how in control they are by entering the mosque and cutting the wires to the speaker system, silencing the call to prayer. Hell, this April wasn't the first time Israeli police stormed the temple and used teargas while battering anyone they came across, as they did the exact same thing in April 2022. Does this sound like a police force which is in control, considering that is three years in a row where they have invaded the mosque and when doing so battered occupants, used teargas, and deliberately cut cables in order to silence the call to prayer? Sorry, but the Israeli police are not in control, that's why they batter Jew and Muslim alike if they disagree with them * Animal sacrifice is written in the Torah, which is why the Temple Mount Administration were all for bringing Paschal lambs to sacrifice on the grounds - and the only reason they did not do this is because their leader got nabbed by plainclothes policemen on the way there (though Reuters neglected to mention whether they did or did not have any sacrificial offerings in the back of their car), so saying a goat wasn't sacrificed doesn't handwave it away as the intent was certainly there * No, my paragraph might not be read that only over 50s were allowed to pray at Al-Aqsa, considering that leads into a paragraph stating that was not the case in April, but was the case in September when there was a heavy Israeli presence surrounding the complex saying who was and was not allowed to access the site - and then battered them anyway, because that's how in control Israeli police are When the IDF and Israeli police habitually show they are only too happy to stoke tensions or shoot first without bothering to ask or answer questions later, they are clearly not in control - which is why their defenders are having to go to increasingly insane degrees to justify their actions, be it saying you cannot criticise them due tot he Dresden bombings during WWII, or dehumanising Palestinians to the point that all of them are terrorists, to trying to suggest those aren't corpses of babies or children being pulled out of rubble but dolls. None of this suggests a normal, healthy, let alone functional society
