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Match Day Thread Plymouth Argyle FC v Sunderland AFC – Saturday 25th November 2023 - KO 15:00

Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by RTB, Nov 22, 2023.

?

Your prediction:

Poll closed Nov 25, 2023.
  1. Home win

    6.3%
  2. Away win (safc)

    79.4%
  3. Draw

    14.3%
  1. Robertson

    Robertson Well-Known Member

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  2. smithy in nl

    smithy in nl Well-Known Member

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    tbh people are moaning about the manager for not using what he’s got! He’s persistently picking the same team and players whether they play well or not. If he rotated it a bit and it doesn’t work fine go back to his trusted but he’s not done that yet!
    Maybe yesterday was the turning point of that tho as he’s made changes way quicker then normal.
     
    #602
  3. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    We have a very good young team that's learning lessons and will improve imo ...

    ... the strikers are easily good enough for the Championship and will score goals.

    It's incredibly frustrating but I think some people are jumping off bridges too early.
     
    #603
  4. rooch 3

    rooch 3 Well-Known Member

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    Or not soon enough.
     
    #604
    clockstander likes this.
  5. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    I'd be pushing a few tbh <laugh>
     
    #605
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  6. WorkyTicketFTM

    WorkyTicketFTM Well-Known Member

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    More than likely not, but he’s 18. Ekwah never had yet he’s being used there so we’ve nothing to lose by trying to mould the lad with all the attributes, physique and massive potential thus meaning we can also fit another lad who looks to be the real deal in the team in Aouchiche.

    Or we can just persist with something that doesn’t work and continue to be toothless.
     
    #606
    clockstander likes this.

  7. Sour Patch

    Sour Patch Guest

    xG as a stand alone statistic is a seriously flawed metric when judging the chances teams create. In this instance Phil is completely ignoring game state. We were behind in 3 of those games for long periods and against 10 men for over a half in the other so naturally the side chasing the game is going to have more shots which generates the xG. I would be interested in seeing how we perform xG wise at 0-0 and the xG generated by our strikers.
     
    #607
  8. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    Of course it's not precise but it backs up what people see when they're watching us.

    We have periods of play when the opposition can't get the ball off us, we attack well and just need to get the strikers in quicker imo.
     
    #608
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  9. TopCat.

    TopCat. Well-Known Member

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    Nowt. He did nowt
     
    #609
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  10. WorkyTicketFTM

    WorkyTicketFTM Well-Known Member

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    It’s not the best metric to go on at all. Different analysts generate their own xG so what someone thinks deserves to be a 0.15 chance another person might think is a 0.25 chance.

    xG aside it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to decipher that we need far too many chances before we take one and concede far too easily when we give an opportunity away. We’ve been beaten numerous times this season by teams who’ve scored every shot on target they’ve registered.
     
    #610
  11. Robertson

    Robertson Well-Known Member

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    Disagree, I think xG is a handy metric. Some caution does need to be used but it very often reflects what a ‘par’ score would be if both sides took their chances according to their difficulty.

    I think yesterday’s (Plymouth 1.22 - 1.88 The Lads) fairly reflects that a draw would have been a fairer result. Plymouth took their chances though, and we didn’t.
     
    #611
  12. Sour Patch

    Sour Patch Guest

    I agree it's a handy metric when you take into consideration other factors. Just blindly using it as justification for us deserving something from the game yesterday is wrong. It not taking into consideration who had the chance is my biggest issue with it.

    It's also a great metric when looking at individual players or teams across a period of time, not individual games.
     
    #612
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  13. WorkyTicketFTM

    WorkyTicketFTM Well-Known Member

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    Their xG on FotMob is 0.88.

    2 shots on target, 2 goals. 4 corners, just 181 accurate passes with an accuracy of 64%.

    If you looked at the stats without knowing the score nobody would look at the game as being a draw, it has a Sunderland win all over it that’s why it’s misleading. Teams let us keep the ball so we’re always going to outpass them, you could see against Ipswich they were happy to let us have the ball it’s not because they can’t get the ball.

    We aren’t a million miles away we play some great football just needs to change something and give us that killer edge whilst tightening up at the back so we don’t concede the first time we lose possession.
     
    #613
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  14. Robertson

    Robertson Well-Known Member

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    Don’t you think a point would have been a fairer result? Good insight on the last bit, though.
     
    #614
  15. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    He started a move with a great crossfield ball, in his own half, and when Ba crossed he was there to gather the ball and set up Clarke on the edge of the six yard area ...

    ... really should've scored.

    Was pushed over in the box when Ballard's header was pushed over.

    There's more but it's better than nowt.
     
    #615
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2023
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  16. WorkyTicketFTM

    WorkyTicketFTM Well-Known Member

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    If anyone’s watching United they’ve started Kobbie Mainoo as their DM today. 18 year old lad. If it can be done on the biggest stage with that much pressure on you playing for United then no reason we can’t try Jobe there.
     
    #616
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  17. Sour Patch

    Sour Patch Guest

    Possibly considering the amount of shots we had, but the majority of our better chances came while 2-0 down and even then I think Mumbas chance for Plymouth was the best chance for either team to score in the second half. Just want us to take the game to the opposition from the very start and create multiple big chances for whichever forward we have, instead of relying on a winger or midfielder to be the goalscorer.
     
    #617
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  18. Mackem74

    Mackem74 Well-Known Member

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    Why are you bringing up his height in relation to yesterday when neither goal came from header or cross. Some folk just don't like him and never will. I think he's great personally, far more positives than negatives
     
    #618
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  19. WorkyTicketFTM

    WorkyTicketFTM Well-Known Member

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    In wasn’t in relation to yesterday it was in relationship to the conversation being had after I mentioned that the team needs to improve and to improve you replace your weaker players first, which he is the weakest. We’ll just ignore the rest of the goals we’ve concede from set pieces and our inability to attack them because it didn’t happen yesterday.

    It baffles me as to what some of our fans actually want. If it’s not the players and it’s not the manager then what do you want to happen now? Continue playing the same team, retain all of our players and finish mid table for the next 5 years?
     
    #619
  20. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    Not being difficult mate but, what do you want?

    Sum it up from team, captain, manager changes or whatever?

    I'm only asking because so many people are so convinced that their ideas are obvious ...

    ... yet they all seem to contradict each other and it becomes quite confusing tbh.
     
    #620
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