WAR! What is it good for?

Trying to put some sense into it if that is at all possible, 'hostages' have a high value. As callous as it may sound, that is their currency value. Always been the same whoever the hostages may be, they are the insurance policy of their captors.

 

Nonsense.

There is a long and well established history disproportionately in any agreement of prisoner exchange or ceasefires wherein Israel, despite the fact that it is usually an unsurprisingly winning, consistently concedes far more than it receives in return.

I refer you to the Gilad Shalit exchange as probably the most extreme example of this utterly upside down approach.

In no other field of conflict in human history does the victor or stronger side concede more than the defeated or weaker side. It is absurd.

300 Palestinian prisoners? Give back every single Israeli captive in that case. Why only 50? Why is that ok? Why do so many on this board lose their **** over proportionality when it applies in Israel's direction, but sweep it majestically under the carpet when it's the other way round?

 

and we're off...

 

The undisputed master of not606 strawman arguments and obfuscation.

Point out a problem, make a valid point, ask a direct question, and Fosse flourishes the cape of myopia and misdirects to a different conversation.

In any event, we've long since established that you are of the opinion that Israel shouldn't have responded at all on Oct 8th, so we'll both agree to be baffled.

 

I would've thought these events would be seen as a glimmer of some hope and positivity but errrr no.

 

You really need to be asking Benny these questions mate, he seems happy with the deal.
Have you checked those percentages to make sure about the proportionality?

 

Have you checked the entire list of historic prisoner exchanges to notice that percentages have never once been a factor?


Honestly I'm not in the ****ing mood for this **** tonight.

 

Well of course not because like most others i have never been privy to the total number of prisoners on either side.

 

The only hostage I ever remember was Terry Waite, don't know what deal was done for him.

 

You know what, you're right.

When Hamas held Gilad Shalit, he was their only live hostage which meant on his release, they were releasing 100% of hostages held.

So Israel releasing 1027 prisoners in return was actually a really poor deal. It should have been 100% of all prisoners, to keep the percentages proportionate.

 

John McCarthy too.

I don't know about the deal to release Terry Waite, but iirc he was kidnapped as a result of the Iran contra deal by the 'mericans?

 

Oh yeah I forgot about John McCarthy.

Terry Waite use to be the hostage negotiator, until they turned the cards on him - mind you he could do with losing some weight at the time lol.

 

This is what sickens me and probably why I'm in a foul mood.

The constant rewarding of acts of terror with totally disproportionate negotiation only emboldens the perpetrators to try again. It's an insurance policy and they see that when they cash in, it works and then some.

Right now, irrespective of whether or not we believe it is justified or legal, Israel has Hamas on its arse. If Hamas wants a humanitarian pause, it needs to release its hostages - with no other conditions attached.

These deals are the equivalent of the allies signing Belgium over to Germany on its surrender at Versailles. It is upside down.

 

I was going to say it was one helluva diet they went on

 

I'd have probably gone in a bit more hard sell myself. It's a bit like getting Waitrose food buyers when you could have got Aldi to do the business.

 

Four years of just talking to a wall

 

Careful CK your mask is slipping.

I'm sure if the IDF stop bombing the **** out of innocent palestinian men, women and children, AND the Israeli hostages, ALL of the remaining 180 will be released.

If in return whether it's 150 or 1000 innocent palestinians are released as well, why do you see that as a problem?

Just comes across as a very strange, dare I say, disingenuous position.

 

I think Terry Waite went in to get McCarthy out and they just thought fck it, you can join him!

They were lucky to get out alive tbh

 

Here's the reality on your proportionality argument fella ... since 2008 to date, approx 1,500 Israeli's have died in the conflict versus 20,500 Palestinians (a number including over 6,000 children - confirmed as an accurate estimate by the WHO) ... now equate that ratio to the proposed hostage exchange numbers - if you were hoping, somehow, to gain the morale high ground, I'm sorry to be the one to give you a sobering reality check ...

 

You are quite correct - over 6,000 dead kids and over 4,000 dead women ffs! ... not to mention the ongoing expansion of illegal settlements in the West Bank ... with no negotiations or intention to have them, as far as I can see ...