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Schumacher -- success by stealth for 2012 ?

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by martial artist, Nov 20, 2011.

  1. martial artist

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    good morning buds

    as we know aldo costa is joining mercedes for 2012 as chief designer , costa as a designer also worked under the great rory byrne at ferrari thruout the todt / brawn / schumacher era designing micheals WDC winning machines , in fact i believe the 05 and 06 ferrari"s were the work of costa ,

    all this experiance at ferrari working with schumacher will have given costa an acute knowledge of the parameters of chassis design that micheal requires to suit his driving style , in fact he will be acutely aware of micheals driving style and the kind of chassis the german favours to suit his style -

    given that costa want to impress his bosses in his first year at mercedes will he fine tune his 2012 chassis upon micheals style knowing that micheal given the car that perfectedly suits his style can probally still get the job done and win races ,

    it would not surprise me if the highly intelligent schumacher has allready blown down costa"s ear to remind him of these things ,
    i certainly think micheal will be alot more competitive with costa at the helm for 2012 ,

    however if costa does decide or more importantly if brawn instructs costa to fine tune his 2012 chassis around his buddy micheals style then it would not surprise me if schumacher once again is a force to be reckoned with -

    the others might have need to be afraid of schumacher for 2012 --
     
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  2. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

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    I feel a bit sorry for Rosberg. It may be that he did not get another firm offer and felt he had little choice, but if he had options and still chose to stay with Mercedes, I think he may have been a little bit foolish.

    Now - having extended his contract - he appears to be being out-manoeuvred. One can only hope that he expected it, knew it and accepted it in the belief that he can still show that he's better. Recent events have been rather one sided, except for Rosberg showing who's boss when they fight one-on-one. But it is clear that Schumacher is getting pieces of the so-called 'dream-team' back together in an effort to sway the odds…

    And I have very little doubt that's just the way Ross Brawn and the Mercedes team want it to be. It would make good headlines and satisfy some big sponsors.

    Good luck Rosberg: I'll be rooting for you!
     
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  3. Nazara

    Nazara Active Member

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    Are you trying to say that Rosberg will be more and more at a disadvantage, while Schumacher's influence around the team grows?
     
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  4. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, Aldo Costa who over saw the 2 years that Schumacher did not win a title following the years of dominance under Brawn/Byrne.........

    Regardless, Costa has come in too late to have a major influence on the design on the 2012 Mercedes. That will have been penned long before he came aboard, so unless he proposes to through those drawings away and start fresh now, then all he can do is tweak what they are building as best as he can.

    The doubts about Schumacher himself also remain.
     
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  5. martial artist

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    was wondering when somebody would state the obvious that schumacher never won the title in 06 -- think alonso and renaults mass damper technology might of had something to do with that -- no matter

    to my understanding mercedes are leaving the final design of there 2012 car fairly late to allow willis and costa some input , i find it hard to believe costa wont have an influence on the design as he was sacked by ferrari in mid summer and recruited by mercedes a few weeks after ,
    but i dont believe his contract actually starts until december so you might have a point --
     
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  6. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

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    Itwas the last part that i think will be the bigger issue. With the ban on in season testing, Costa will only have full influence for 2013 when he has had a chance to evaluate the concept of the current Mercedes to see if it is a waste of time evolving it any more. I wouldn't be suprised if they have him working on the 2013 new regs already.
     
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  7. martial artist

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    as i said it was my understanding that mercedes were delaying there 2012 design to allow willis and costa some input --
     
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  8. WestCoastBoogaloo

    WestCoastBoogaloo Well-Known Member

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    'Success by winning' seems to be a better method in my opinion...
     
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  9. EternalMSC

    EternalMSC Well-Known Member

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    "Success by not providing a **** car" seems to be a better method in my opinion... ;)
     
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  10. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps 'success' can be measured by simply beating one's team-mate?
    For instance: I am sure that if Schumacher beats Rosberg's points tally, you EMSC, will claim it as success - just as you have on each of the few occasions it has happened in a race.
     
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  11. Forza Bianchi

    Forza Bianchi Well-Known Member

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    Costa starts on 1st December so I don't think he will have too much of an influence but I'm sure Brawn is fully aware of Schumacher's requirements and given Schumacher's strong performances on recent Sundays, I wouldn't be surprised if the W03 is more suited to Schumacher than Rosberg.
     
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  12. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

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    Mercedes aka Brawn/Costa have to decide is Schuey is in it for the long term, otherwise what would be the point of developing a car around him for one season if either he, or they, chosse not to renew his contract past 2012?
     
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  13. EternalMSC

    EternalMSC Well-Known Member

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    Cosi, there have been certain instances where Schumacher has DNF'd in a race, thus losing him many points.
    Let me give you a few examples.. Monaco - Engine failure
    Hungary - Engine failure
    Singapore - Accident with Perez
    Silverstone - Accident with Kobayashi
    Korea - Perez plummets into his gearbox

    3/5 of these examples were not his doing, were it not for the failures (Monaco for example) - he would have finished ahead of Rosberg.
    The simple conclusion is that Michael brings home a large amount of points (Spain-Canada-Monza-Suzuka-India), but has to push hard for them.
    Rosberg brings home average points but is more consistent.
    I am sure with the "dream team" on board, Mercedes will be able to capitalize on their ever improving MGP for 2012.
    There is no point arguing about who is beating who at the moment anyway, because they are not in a position to, the top 3 teams are and Mercedes GP at the moment are not one of them.

    If they are designing the car around Michael, it is either to keep Schumacher in it for the long run or -
    to grab back a last hurrah before the end of 2012.
     
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  14. happyal

    happyal Active Member

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    Looking at who Mercedes are bringing in for 2012, and what they are doing behind the scenes, I think they will be much better. We all now that one of Schumacher’s greatest strengths is team building, and of course he will try to build a team around himself. I don’t think that they will be in the running for the championship, but I really hope that Schumacher gets at least one more victory.
     
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  15. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    Eternal, you're forgetting Rosberg has had 2 DNF's too, and, whilst I can't recall the exact circumstances, Monza wasn't his fault, was it?
     
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  16. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

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    I was merely questioning your description of 'success', EMSC.
    The simplest measurement is against one's team mate. The Mercedes car is provided to both drivers, effectively cancelling out its quality for the purposes of comparison. Hence, I am sure you will see Schumacher as 'successful' if he manages to overhaul Rosberg's points tally, regardless of incidents either of them have, which are part of the game for everyone.
     
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  17. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
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    Unless Mercedes is planning to off load Rosberg some time soon designing a car around Schumacher may back fire. You can get set in your ways and tbh, I don't see Schumacher lasting more than 2 more seasons in the sport.
     
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  18. EternalMSC

    EternalMSC Well-Known Member

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    Starting 2012 or 2011?
     
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  19. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
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    As in 2 more full seasons (Christmas 2013) :)
     
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  20. EternalMSC

    EternalMSC Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, so I take he has completed 2012 and 2013...;)
    At the end of the day, it really depends on if Mercedes can work with Michael, as Ferrari and Benetton did in the past.
    Another test of teamwork and loyalty, Schumi will be fine. :)
     
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